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This one was easy. Just drop Turkey on Facebook. The fact that they didn't was weak - Turkey does not represent a huge slice of their userbase, they could easil

by Aqueous 12y ago

This one was easy. Just drop Turkey on Facebook. The fact that they didn't was weak - Turkey does not represent a huge slice of their userbase, they could easily afford to lose it in support of free speech. At one point Google dropped China - a much larger potential market - because of China's demands for Google to become complicit in their censorship.

capkutay 12y ago
Isn't that pretty insensitive the large number of Turks (at least 20 million) who identify more with Western values than the conservative Islamic values being imposed on them by the current leadership? Not to mention, FB is very popular over there...especially amongst that demographic.
- Aqueous 12y ago
  No - it would ideally cause that (still a minority) portion of Turks who would be most served by a protection of free speech to demand the restoration of Facebook services from their government. Perhaps the 20 million Turks who are more sympathetic to Western values should be engaged in active debate with the 54 million who apparently aren't.
  - capkutay 12y ago
    West-Aligned Turks are engaged in an active debate and protests [0]. But like you said, they're a minority (a large minority) so they cannot succeed in electing a political party that can restore their Western, Secular values 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_protests_in_Turkey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_protests_in_Tur...
    - stickfigure 12y ago
      It is still an open question as to whether progressive interests would be better served by having Facebook blocked. Certainly some percentage of conservative Turks use Facebook; blocking Facebook is a decision to forego something they may value. Right now they get to have their pie and eat it too. I'm not sure that is healthy.
  - wavefunction 12y ago
    What you've posted is idealist but unrealistic and poorly considered imo, especially if you have been following Turkish politics lately. facebook in the West is a lot of people posting funny cat pictures but in a place like Turkey it can be one of the few methods for the Western-leaning Turks to organize and communicate. I would suggest you read up on the Iranian revolution against the Shah. Your suggestion is exactly what the Shah did on behest of the UK and USA: he came down real hard on the pro-democracy cosmopolitan youth breaking up their meetings and demonstrations. Meanwhile the hardline religious zealots could still go to mosque and organize themselves there. End result: the sort of people we might like to support in Iran were marginalized and the Ayatollah seized power. You're suggesting a similar course of action and I would predict a similar outcome.

by Aqueous 12y ago

capkutay 12y ago

Isn't that pretty insensitive the large number of Turks (at least 20 million) who identify more with Western values than the conservative Islamic values being imposed on them by the current leadership? Not to mention, FB is very popular over there...especially amongst that demographic.

Aqueous 12y ago
No - it would ideally cause that (still a minority) portion of Turks who would be most served by a protection of free speech to demand the restoration of Facebook services from their government. Perhaps the 20 million Turks who are more sympathetic to Western values should be engaged in active debate with the 54 million who apparently aren't.
- capkutay 12y ago
  West-Aligned Turks are engaged in an active debate and protests [0]. But like you said, they're a minority (a large minority) so they cannot succeed in electing a political party that can restore their Western, Secular values 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_protests_in_Turkey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_protests_in_Tur...
  - stickfigure 12y ago
    It is still an open question as to whether progressive interests would be better served by having Facebook blocked. Certainly some percentage of conservative Turks use Facebook; blocking Facebook is a decision to forego something they may value. Right now they get to have their pie and eat it too. I'm not sure that is healthy.
- wavefunction 12y ago
  What you've posted is idealist but unrealistic and poorly considered imo, especially if you have been following Turkish politics lately. facebook in the West is a lot of people posting funny cat pictures but in a place like Turkey it can be one of the few methods for the Western-leaning Turks to organize and communicate. I would suggest you read up on the Iranian revolution against the Shah. Your suggestion is exactly what the Shah did on behest of the UK and USA: he came down real hard on the pro-democracy cosmopolitan youth breaking up their meetings and demonstrations. Meanwhile the hardline religious zealots could still go to mosque and organize themselves there. End result: the sort of people we might like to support in Iran were marginalized and the Ayatollah seized power. You're suggesting a similar course of action and I would predict a similar outcome.