4 ms·

Can we please stop acting like the USA is somehow a "good guy" anymore? We have to realize that the authoritarian demons have the battering ram at the door and

by wahsd 12y ago

Can we please stop acting like the USA is somehow a "good guy" anymore? We have to realize that the authoritarian demons have the battering ram at the door and I really don't want to find out what happens when the USA turns into an authoritarian militaristic regime. We're way more than half way there already and people support it. Our very own government is a threat to us all, or at least those who will find themselves on the wrong site of the inner circle.

crimsonalucard 12y ago
I think it's also naive to think of the government as the "bad guy" as well. Classifying the government as bad or good is basically trying to assign a singular attribute to the aggregate actions of thousands of people in politics and government agencies. The truth is neither black or white, and extremely complicated.
- riter 12y ago
  +bump
- NhanH 12y ago
  It depends on whether you're classifying based on intentions or on results. When you're using the word "bad guy", it implied the intentions to be bad/evil. However, it's easy to see that a complex system can't (normally) be assigned an intention. But even if every actors within the system is acting in good faith, the emergent behaviour can still have bad result. In the case of government, it's definitely not complicated to classify the aggregate behaviour as unqualified bad (in term of result), regardless of the intention of the individuals working within the systems.
- wickedlogic 12y ago
  Can we all agree that a minimum, they are intentionally misleading their citizens?
  - visarga 12y ago
    Not just that, but they are conducting online propaganda by fake commenting, fake news and manipulation of ranking and news feeds. And not just USA - they do it on an even larger scale in China. (here's a wiki source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party) Search keyword: "wumao" which means paid internet commentator or "public opinion molder".
westernrepublic 12y ago
You're such a moron it hurts.
- kordless 12y ago
  Please don't be insulting. Debate this. It's important.
- DickingAround 12y ago
  This is not a constructive comment. If he is wrong, explain why.
  - pinaceae 12y ago
    well, I agree with the poster you're replying to. remember, it takes a magnitude more effort to refute bullshit than to create it. it is just tiring to see asinine comments like the OPs. as if the US or any country ever was a beacon of light and justice. slavery? genocide against the natives? two unnecessary nuclear bomb attacks? anything that ever happened in latin america, in the last 100 years? guantanamo? iraq 2? same for any other empire, they're all built on blood, racism and delusion. the brits, japan, china, the romans, the soviets. it does not matter. it is all the same bullshit.
superuser2 12y ago
Do you read the news? Because here are some things that other states are up to that we aren't (at least, not in this decade): - Systematic execution for the crime of belonging to a particular ethnic group or religion - Open and openly arbitrary disappearing, detention, and torture of intellectuals for the crime of writing articles critical of state-sponsored religious and political doctrine - Use of force against people who commit such crimes as selecting their own sexual partners, disobeying their parents, being seen in public with members of the opposite sex, texting members of the opposite sex, being homosexual, etc. Or, more commonly in the "developed" world, failure to investigate or pursue family-based vigilante "justice" against same. - Failure to acknowledge women as people and rape as a crime - Committing violence against, or being complicit in violence against, children who dared to go to school - Corruption to a degree that renders the public health infrastructure so dysfunctional that tens of thousands of people die needlessly - Outright censorship of any reporting that paints the state in a negative light --- "Knowing things about citizens" is dangerous because it enables the state to be far more effective in pursuing policies like the above. We ought to limit the government's knowledge of the lives of its citizens because that makes it much harder to effectively implement policies like these. HOWEVER, HN sounds downright ridiculous when it declares that being listed in a database is comparable to being summarily executed for criticizing state religion.
- themartorana 12y ago
  These points are horrible, but have no bearing at all on whether or not the US government is friend or foe. The existence of worse does not make better good. The state of things in the US is scary, and Saudi Arabia existing doesn't make it less so. Edit: I'd argue that corruption of The State by lobbyists, special interest groups, and shadowy Super PACs cost thousands of lives a year in the USA.
  - code_duck 12y ago
    On the last point (edit), absolutely when you consider that the 'drug war' and cannabis prohibition are basically a for-profit collusion between many corporate entities and government which result in significant harm to the populace.

by wahsd 12y ago

crimsonalucard 12y ago

I think it's also naive to think of the government as the "bad guy" as well. Classifying the government as bad or good is basically trying to assign a singular attribute to the aggregate actions of thousands of people in politics and government agencies. The truth is neither black or white, and extremely complicated.

riter 12y ago
+bump
NhanH 12y ago
It depends on whether you're classifying based on intentions or on results. When you're using the word "bad guy", it implied the intentions to be bad/evil. However, it's easy to see that a complex system can't (normally) be assigned an intention. But even if every actors within the system is acting in good faith, the emergent behaviour can still have bad result. In the case of government, it's definitely not complicated to classify the aggregate behaviour as unqualified bad (in term of result), regardless of the intention of the individuals working within the systems.
wickedlogic 12y ago
Can we all agree that a minimum, they are intentionally misleading their citizens?
- visarga 12y ago
  Not just that, but they are conducting online propaganda by fake commenting, fake news and manipulation of ranking and news feeds. And not just USA - they do it on an even larger scale in China. (here's a wiki source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party) Search keyword: "wumao" which means paid internet commentator or "public opinion molder".

westernrepublic 12y ago

You're such a moron it hurts.

kordless 12y ago
Please don't be insulting. Debate this. It's important.
DickingAround 12y ago
This is not a constructive comment. If he is wrong, explain why.
- pinaceae 12y ago
  well, I agree with the poster you're replying to. remember, it takes a magnitude more effort to refute bullshit than to create it. it is just tiring to see asinine comments like the OPs. as if the US or any country ever was a beacon of light and justice. slavery? genocide against the natives? two unnecessary nuclear bomb attacks? anything that ever happened in latin america, in the last 100 years? guantanamo? iraq 2? same for any other empire, they're all built on blood, racism and delusion. the brits, japan, china, the romans, the soviets. it does not matter. it is all the same bullshit.

superuser2 12y ago

Do you read the news? Because here are some things that other states are up to that we aren't (at least, not in this decade): - Systematic execution for the crime of belonging to a particular ethnic group or religion - Open and openly arbitrary disappearing, detention, and torture of intellectuals for the crime of writing articles critical of state-sponsored religious and political doctrine - Use of force against people who commit such crimes as selecting their own sexual partners, disobeying their parents, being seen in public with members of the opposite sex, texting members of the opposite sex, being homosexual, etc. Or, more commonly in the "developed" world, failure to investigate or pursue family-based vigilante "justice" against same. - Failure to acknowledge women as people and rape as a crime - Committing violence against, or being complicit in violence against, children who dared to go to school - Corruption to a degree that renders the public health infrastructure so dysfunctional that tens of thousands of people die needlessly - Outright censorship of any reporting that paints the state in a negative light --- "Knowing things about citizens" is dangerous because it enables the state to be far more effective in pursuing policies like the above. We ought to limit the government's knowledge of the lives of its citizens because that makes it much harder to effectively implement policies like these. HOWEVER, HN sounds downright ridiculous when it declares that being listed in a database is comparable to being summarily executed for criticizing state religion.

themartorana 12y ago
These points are horrible, but have no bearing at all on whether or not the US government is friend or foe. The existence of worse does not make better good. The state of things in the US is scary, and Saudi Arabia existing doesn't make it less so. Edit: I'd argue that corruption of The State by lobbyists, special interest groups, and shadowy Super PACs cost thousands of lives a year in the USA.
- code_duck 12y ago
  On the last point (edit), absolutely when you consider that the 'drug war' and cannabis prohibition are basically a for-profit collusion between many corporate entities and government which result in significant harm to the populace.