5 ms·

Tyres have RFID tags in them??! What an unusual thing to put RFID tags in. I wonder what other common items could have tags in them that people are generally un

Tyres have RFID tags in them??! What an unusual thing to put RFID tags in. I wonder what other common items could have tags in them that people are generally unaware of. I'm quite in to cars and I had NO IDEA this was a thing.

robotkilla 12y ago
I was also unaware of this. That said, RFID chips are used for inventory systems. The inclusion in a tire is most likely innocuous and doesn't seem that unusual to me.
- mikeash 12y ago
  It's used for monitoring pressure so the driver can be alerted if the tire starts to go flat.
  - DamnYuppie 12y ago
    And they are quite expensive to replace, often more then the cost of the tire themselves. Also most insurance carriers don't reimburse for them, hence it is a separate coverage item.
  - kw71 12y ago
    No. That is a different mechanism, and part of the wheel, not the tire.
    - kbaker 12y ago
      TPMS also transmits a unique code that is traceable. See this: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/04/tracking_vehicl.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/04/tracking_vehi...
    - mikeash 12y ago
      I just assumed it was a misunderstanding of TPMS. Apparently some tires have RFID directly embedded as well for tracking purposes, but from what I can find it doesn't sound like it's all that common yet.
  - bduerst 12y ago
    So then they're active RFID chips that broadcast?
    - mikeash 12y ago
      Some are active, some are passive. There doesn't appear to be any single standardized design for them.
- fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
  >The inclusion in a tire is most likely innocuous and doesn't seem that unusual to me. Its intended purpose being innocuous wouldn't stop someone from abusing it.
  - robotkilla 12y ago
    Agreed. I should probably buy an RFID read / writer.
acveilleux 12y ago
Owners of commercial vehicle fleet trying to manage the timely replacement of tires would welcome the ability to scan their vehicles and know the serial numbers of the tires. That would let them track age and make sure they're all replaced in a timely manner. Or switched to winter tires where it makes sense to do so (like Quebec, where it's the law to have winter tires after Nov 15.)
ChuckMcM 12y ago
Yup, embedded right into the rubber. There are a couple of reasons for this, one is to provide serial numbers which allows you to 'age' the tire. Older tires are less reliable than fresh tires and there are laws in states like California that disallow selling "old" tires as new. You can read the tag and see when the tire was made. The sensors are not used to indicate inflation as far as I know that is a completely separate system. When they were first proposed, some folks showed they could be read from side of the road although that was unreliable. Reading them from the roadbed itself however was quite reliable as you ended up, worst case, with the tag being one wheel diameter away from the reader, and they were spec'd to be readable like that as folks doing inventory on a stack of tires did not want to rotate the tires in the stack. The last set of tires I 'read' (to show this off to a disbelieving friend) had a 18 digit serial number and a 6 digit date code. I'm sure there is some IEEE standard now for what your tire should report.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- abruzzi 12y ago
  In the us all tires have a number stamped in the rubber that indicates the year and week of manufacture. This has been there for a very long time. I'm sure the idea was efficient inventory management more than anything (easier to read without unstacking tires.). Pressure (TPMS) is a very different active device. They're battery powered and the batteries need to be replaced after some time.

robotkilla 12y ago

I was also unaware of this. That said, RFID chips are used for inventory systems. The inclusion in a tire is most likely innocuous and doesn't seem that unusual to me.

mikeash 12y ago
It's used for monitoring pressure so the driver can be alerted if the tire starts to go flat.
- DamnYuppie 12y ago
  And they are quite expensive to replace, often more then the cost of the tire themselves. Also most insurance carriers don't reimburse for them, hence it is a separate coverage item.
- kw71 12y ago
  No. That is a different mechanism, and part of the wheel, not the tire.
  - kbaker 12y ago
    TPMS also transmits a unique code that is traceable. See this: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/04/tracking_vehicl.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/04/tracking_vehi...
  - mikeash 12y ago
    I just assumed it was a misunderstanding of TPMS. Apparently some tires have RFID directly embedded as well for tracking purposes, but from what I can find it doesn't sound like it's all that common yet.
- bduerst 12y ago
  So then they're active RFID chips that broadcast?
  - mikeash 12y ago
    Some are active, some are passive. There doesn't appear to be any single standardized design for them.
fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
>The inclusion in a tire is most likely innocuous and doesn't seem that unusual to me. Its intended purpose being innocuous wouldn't stop someone from abusing it.
- robotkilla 12y ago
  Agreed. I should probably buy an RFID read / writer.

acveilleux 12y ago

Owners of commercial vehicle fleet trying to manage the timely replacement of tires would welcome the ability to scan their vehicles and know the serial numbers of the tires. That would let them track age and make sure they're all replaced in a timely manner. Or switched to winter tires where it makes sense to do so (like Quebec, where it's the law to have winter tires after Nov 15.)

ChuckMcM 12y ago

Yup, embedded right into the rubber. There are a couple of reasons for this, one is to provide serial numbers which allows you to 'age' the tire. Older tires are less reliable than fresh tires and there are laws in states like California that disallow selling "old" tires as new. You can read the tag and see when the tire was made. The sensors are not used to indicate inflation as far as I know that is a completely separate system. When they were first proposed, some folks showed they could be read from side of the road although that was unreliable. Reading them from the roadbed itself however was quite reliable as you ended up, worst case, with the tag being one wheel diameter away from the reader, and they were spec'd to be readable like that as folks doing inventory on a stack of tires did not want to rotate the tires in the stack. The last set of tires I 'read' (to show this off to a disbelieving friend) had a 18 digit serial number and a 6 digit date code. I'm sure there is some IEEE standard now for what your tire should report.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
abruzzi 12y ago
In the us all tires have a number stamped in the rubber that indicates the year and week of manufacture. This has been there for a very long time. I'm sure the idea was efficient inventory management more than anything (easier to read without unstacking tires.). Pressure (TPMS) is a very different active device. They're battery powered and the batteries need to be replaced after some time.