7 ms·

modern chess is still called shatranj in arabic & farsi

by yousifa 12y ago

contingencies 12y ago
At the risk of stating the obvious, the Persian etymology is far older (ie. Arabic [word] derives from Persian [word]) since Islam and Arabic [as a coherent linguistic and cultural force] didn't exist until many hundreds of years later. Can any competent Persian readers consult Persian language sources to determine an Iranian take on the etymology of the word? Wiktionary at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shatranj http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shatranj states the following etymology for the modern English loan word: "From Arabic شطرنج (šaṭranj), from Persian شترنگ (šatrang), from Middle Persian ctlng (čatrang), from Sanskrit चतुरङ्ग (čaturaṅga)." (Edit: 1. Arabic does not derive from Farsi .. (Obviously) I was referring to the Arabic word in this case being a loan-word from Persian. 2. Arabic was written before farsi was An interesting tangent... it seems you are correct if limited examples of pre-standardized Arab-region languages written in pre-Arabic scripts are considered, which were allegedly circa 0CE written in Aramaic ... but {{citation-needed}} on relevance to anything at all, really.) ... TLDR; Arabic as a cultural or linguistic force appears to begin with Islam, ie. far later, whereas Persian had weight far earlier, ie. in the period under discussion.)
- yousifa 12y ago
  As to this specific word, I do not know where it originated. However, Arabic does not derive from Farsi and Islam did not introduce Arabic. Arabic was written before farsi was(~800 BC vs ~600 BC), but the languages are much older. Also, Farsi and Arabic have different roots. Farsi did not start using the Arabic alphabet until ~700 AD. Modern Farsi does have a lot of Arabic words used because of Islam.
  - Behaafarid 12y ago
    Quick note, Persian is the proper and historical name of "Farsi" in English. Farsi is the local name (and what most Persian speaking people call their language in their own language), much like "French" vs "Français" in English. To be pedantic, it is improper to say "I speak Français", rather one should say "I speak French".
- Florin_Andrei 12y ago
  > from Sanskrit चतुरङ्ग (čaturaṅga) chatur-anga = four limbs (or perhaps four body parts, I'm not sure)
chetanahuja 12y ago
And Hindi. Nobody uses the original "chaturang" form. I never even knew this was the origin of the word shatranj until I saw this wikipedia page.

modern chess is still called shatranj in arabic & farsi

by yousifa 12y ago

modern chess is still called shatranj in arabic & farsi

At the risk of stating the obvious, the Persian etymology is far older (ie. Arabic [word] derives from Persian [word]) since Islam and Arabic [as a coherent linguistic and cultural force] didn't exist until many hundreds of years later. Can any competent Persian readers consult Persian language sources to determine an Iranian take on the etymology of the word? Wiktionary at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shatranj http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shatranj states the following etymology for the modern English loan word: "From Arabic شطرنج (šaṭranj), from Persian شترنگ (šatrang), from Middle Persian ctlng (čatrang), from Sanskrit चतुरङ्ग (čaturaṅga)." (Edit: 1. Arabic does not derive from Farsi .. (Obviously) I was referring to the Arabic word in this case being a loan-word from Persian. 2. Arabic was written before farsi was An interesting tangent... it seems you are correct if limited examples of pre-standardized Arab-region languages written in pre-Arabic scripts are considered, which were allegedly circa 0CE written in Aramaic ... but {{citation-needed}} on relevance to anything at all, really.) ... TLDR; Arabic as a cultural or linguistic force appears to begin with Islam, ie. far later, whereas Persian had weight far earlier, ie. in the period under discussion.)

yousifa 12y ago
As to this specific word, I do not know where it originated. However, Arabic does not derive from Farsi and Islam did not introduce Arabic. Arabic was written before farsi was(~800 BC vs ~600 BC), but the languages are much older. Also, Farsi and Arabic have different roots. Farsi did not start using the Arabic alphabet until ~700 AD. Modern Farsi does have a lot of Arabic words used because of Islam.
- Behaafarid 12y ago
  Quick note, Persian is the proper and historical name of "Farsi" in English. Farsi is the local name (and what most Persian speaking people call their language in their own language), much like "French" vs "Français" in English. To be pedantic, it is improper to say "I speak Français", rather one should say "I speak French".
Florin_Andrei 12y ago
> from Sanskrit चतुरङ्ग (čaturaṅga) chatur-anga = four limbs (or perhaps four body parts, I'm not sure)

chetanahuja 12y ago

And Hindi. Nobody uses the original "chaturang" form. I never even knew this was the origin of the word shatranj until I saw this wikipedia page.