7 ms·

I stopped taking over-the-counter drugs years ago unless its vitally necessary. Common colds, allergies etc are not too difficult to bear in most circumstances

by Zaheer 12y ago

I stopped taking over-the-counter drugs years ago unless its vitally necessary. Common colds, allergies etc are not too difficult to bear in most circumstances and with the all the side-effects of pharma drugs I prefer to go with alternative medicines ex. local honey, lemons, etc.

pdabbadabba 12y ago
> I prefer to go with alternative medicines ex. local honey, lemons, etc. These alternatives clearly have the advantage of being side-effect free for most people, but I have always been very skeptical about their effectiveness. Are there actually any reliable studies on the efficacy of local honey in treating allergies? And I thought that the role of vitamin C in warding off colds had been pretty well debunked. (I assume that's what the lemons are for.) Don't get me wrong, I really wish all this nice stuff worked. Show me firm evidence that it does, and I'm sold. (And some of it I'm happy to do even if it's not effective in the pharmacological sense, just because it feels/tastes nice.) But as I said, I'm skeptical.
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  I agree with the parent when it comes to things like the cold. I seriously don't understand people who take paracetamol and tons of other over the counter stuff for that. When it comes to allergies though (hay fever in my case) I can barely function without antihistamines (and with them I'm still a wreck). I haven't found any of the home remedies to be effective for it whereas in the case of the cold plenty of water and some lemon and ginger tea seems to improve things a bit. In fact I've noticed I feel better with that than over the counter stuff for the cold.
  - silencio 12y ago
    > I seriously don't understand people who take paracetamol and tons of other over the counter stuff for that. When it comes to allergies though... Isn't that exactly like the grandparent comment's "allergies etc are not too difficult to bear in most circumstances"? I, like you, have bad allergies and I can't live without Singulair+Zyrtec. But... I've had three colds and one bout of bronchitis this season, and I took OTC meds including painkillers because I had unbearable sinus congestion/pain and headaches each time. I also ended up doubling down on my usual meds for allergies+asthma since that got worse too. Colds aren't all mild with no complications. I don't begrudge people seeking symptom relief.
    - relaytheurgency 12y ago
      Taking medications that alleviate the symptoms of upper respiratory congestion also aid in preventing sinus infections down the road. Diminishing the effects of a cold has more benefit than just providing comfort, you are also helping to eliminate a breeding ground for nasty bacteria.
  - aidenn0 12y ago
    My wife will reliably get acute sinus infections following a cold if she doesn't take decongestants. She is generally aversive to taking any medication, but after 8 sinus infections in one year, she now always takes decongestants when a cold starts.
    - mrfusion 12y ago
      I'm thinking I might have that same issue. Can you share what works for her?
      - silencio 12y ago
        I'm not the parent, and I haven't had 8 in one year, but I've had a few, and my colds always come with congestion... I use the hell out of neti pots/sinus rinses, steam inhalation (like a cup of tea - which, drinking lots of fluids also helps), and pseudoephedrine.
      - aidenn0 12y ago
        just like the other person who replied to you, a neti-pot and pseudoephedrine (which you have to go to the pharmacy counter to get in the US, but does not require a prescription).
    - k-mcgrady 12y ago
      I'm sure that happens to some people but I doubt it happens to a majority and everyone I knows pops whatever they can get their hands on for the cold.
- benbreen 12y ago
  I haven't found any hard evidence to support the local honey for allergies thing, but honey really does have some remarkable medicinal properties, especially as a natural antibacterial: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609166/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609166/
- satellitecat 12y ago
  One thing I've found is that honey is an amazing sore-throat cure.
  - contingencies 12y ago
    For coughs, check out olive leaf extract. I very rarely recommend things, but it's amazing how suddenly and completely it makes you stop coughing!
    - mrfusion 12y ago
      That sounds amazing. Can you recommend a brand, dosage? Are you saying it cures the cough or just suppresses it?
      - contingencies 12y ago
        Two tablets (recommended daily max) suppresses for me the actual coughing within 15 minutes absolutely and completely for about 6 hours. Brand here in Australia is 'Living Healthy'. Each capsule: (1) 2.92mg dry olive leaf (Olea europaea) (2) 35mg equiv. to Oleuropein (3) 100mg Arographis paniculata leaf dry (4) 2.5mg equiv. to Andrographolide (5) 5mg zinc gluconate. Image @ http://www.terrywhitechemists.com.au/living-healthy-olive-leaf-extract-120-capsules.html http://www.terrywhitechemists.com.au/living-healthy-olive-le... ... manufacturer 'Orion Laboratories' recently acquired by http://www.perrigo.com.au/ http://www.perrigo.com.au/
    - anonbanker 12y ago
      replying as breadcrumbs so I can reference this remedy later.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
- marincounty 12y ago
  That Placebo Effect is so strong I don't even bother to debunk natural remedies. Plus, I might be throwing the baby out with the bath water, but right now I'm very skeptical of a lot of pharmacuticals studies. They just lied to us so many times when it comes to the efficacy of their newest drug.
  - pdabbadabba 12y ago
    I get your skepticism, but does it not help that pharmaceutical studies are closely reviewed by the FDA before a drug can be marketed? Getting a new drug approved is far from easy.
    - duwease 12y ago
      Not nearly as much as you might think. Check out "Bad Pharma" by Ben Goldacre. It's a treatment of the statistical and legal tricks used by drug companies to overstate the efficacy of new drugs, without breaking any actual FDA regulations. Even after using all the known tricks for cherry-picking results, p-hacking, and the like, there exist much-abused FDA 'fast track' options for getting a 'needed' drug out before the science is confirmed, and quite often the science never gets around to being confirmed. Even big-name drugs like Tamiflu have been shown later to be no better than generics at best and completely useless at worst.
    - pc2g4d 12y ago
      It's also not that hard---perform your own research, under conditions you specify, using analysis methods you dictate, with the ability to retry over and over and over until a favorable result arises by chance, THEN the FDA scrutinizes it.
    - fit2rule 12y ago
      The same FDA that is staffed by ex-pharmaceutical executives, and the same pharmaceutical companies that are staffed by ex-FDA staff? The FDA is really not something you can reasonably, or should, trust.
- Zaheer 12y ago
  There's quite a lot of anecdotal evidence in support of both. Lemons for colds are more a relief than a cure according to [1]. The way I tend to look at, people have survived/healed themselves for thousands of years prior to the advent of modern medicine. Some methods are not that effective while many others are even if due to a placebo effect. A large part of staying healthy I believe is being preventative. Many 'normal' activities can actually be coined as cures to common ailments. Staying active, sleep, eating healthy, not over-eating etc. [1] http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/common-cold/in-depth/cold-remedies/art-20046403 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/common-cold/in...
  - relaytheurgency 12y ago
    Prior to the advent of modern medicine people didn't heal themselves. They died at record rates from things that are minor inconveniences now.
    - Zaheer 12y ago
      I'm mostly referring to symptoms and lesser illnesses such as colds, headaches, sores and such
      - relaytheurgency 12y ago
        An open wound was almost certainly a recipe for gangrene prior to antiseptics and antibiotics.
        Zaheer 12y ago
        I think this straying from my main point. All I was trying to say is when possible stick to natural stuff in all other circumstances I'm all for modern medicines.
        eurleif 12y ago
        In this study[0], honey compares favorably to silver sulfadiazine dressing for healing burn wounds. [0] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845359/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845359/
- fit2rule 12y ago
  Try it for yourself, and don't be so dependent on third parties to tell you how to live your life. There's nothing to lose and a whole world of independence to gain. Honey and lemon is awesome if you have a cold - if you're not trying it yourself because there isn't a study to prove its efficacy, then you're missing out on one of the true great values in life: experiencing things for yourself.
scott_s 12y ago
I feel obligated to say that "alternative medicine" means treatment attempts that are not based on science or evidence.
- gress 12y ago
  They are based on evidence, but that evidence has not been scientifically evaluated.
  - justinsteele 12y ago
    And given how that worked for cultures before the modern age, I'll stick to those who choose to study medicine. Not those who simply prescribe whatever they felt worked once, for a reason unknown to them.
    - gress 12y ago
      Why do you need a straw man to justify your point?
  - scott_s 12y ago
    Which, to me, is equivalent to saying it's not based on evidence.
    - gress 12y ago
      Which means that you are also saying that the court system is not based on evidence.
sanderjd 12y ago
Honest question: what convinces you that over-the-counter drugs have a negative effect rather than a neutral or even positive effect?
- meursault334 12y ago
  It's pretty well documented that over the counter pain killers such as acetaminophen, aspirin, and ibuprofen can have long term negative consequences with long term use. Allergy meds appear to be joining this group. In many cases the threshold for harm is fairly low in terms of lifetime cumulative dose. In some cases there are long-term benefits to these drugs(aspirin for instance) but there are definitely downsides. That isn't to say that pursuing alternative treatments to colds and allergies makes sense.

by Zaheer 12y ago

pdabbadabba 12y ago

> I prefer to go with alternative medicines ex. local honey, lemons, etc. These alternatives clearly have the advantage of being side-effect free for most people, but I have always been very skeptical about their effectiveness. Are there actually any reliable studies on the efficacy of local honey in treating allergies? And I thought that the role of vitamin C in warding off colds had been pretty well debunked. (I assume that's what the lemons are for.) Don't get me wrong, I really wish all this nice stuff worked. Show me firm evidence that it does, and I'm sold. (And some of it I'm happy to do even if it's not effective in the pharmacological sense, just because it feels/tastes nice.) But as I said, I'm skeptical.

k-mcgrady 12y ago
I agree with the parent when it comes to things like the cold. I seriously don't understand people who take paracetamol and tons of other over the counter stuff for that. When it comes to allergies though (hay fever in my case) I can barely function without antihistamines (and with them I'm still a wreck). I haven't found any of the home remedies to be effective for it whereas in the case of the cold plenty of water and some lemon and ginger tea seems to improve things a bit. In fact I've noticed I feel better with that than over the counter stuff for the cold.
- silencio 12y ago
  > I seriously don't understand people who take paracetamol and tons of other over the counter stuff for that. When it comes to allergies though... Isn't that exactly like the grandparent comment's "allergies etc are not too difficult to bear in most circumstances"? I, like you, have bad allergies and I can't live without Singulair+Zyrtec. But... I've had three colds and one bout of bronchitis this season, and I took OTC meds including painkillers because I had unbearable sinus congestion/pain and headaches each time. I also ended up doubling down on my usual meds for allergies+asthma since that got worse too. Colds aren't all mild with no complications. I don't begrudge people seeking symptom relief.
  - relaytheurgency 12y ago
    Taking medications that alleviate the symptoms of upper respiratory congestion also aid in preventing sinus infections down the road. Diminishing the effects of a cold has more benefit than just providing comfort, you are also helping to eliminate a breeding ground for nasty bacteria.
- aidenn0 12y ago
  My wife will reliably get acute sinus infections following a cold if she doesn't take decongestants. She is generally aversive to taking any medication, but after 8 sinus infections in one year, she now always takes decongestants when a cold starts.
  - mrfusion 12y ago
    I'm thinking I might have that same issue. Can you share what works for her?
    - silencio 12y ago
      I'm not the parent, and I haven't had 8 in one year, but I've had a few, and my colds always come with congestion... I use the hell out of neti pots/sinus rinses, steam inhalation (like a cup of tea - which, drinking lots of fluids also helps), and pseudoephedrine.
    - aidenn0 12y ago
      just like the other person who replied to you, a neti-pot and pseudoephedrine (which you have to go to the pharmacy counter to get in the US, but does not require a prescription).
  - k-mcgrady 12y ago
    I'm sure that happens to some people but I doubt it happens to a majority and everyone I knows pops whatever they can get their hands on for the cold.
benbreen 12y ago
I haven't found any hard evidence to support the local honey for allergies thing, but honey really does have some remarkable medicinal properties, especially as a natural antibacterial: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609166/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609166/
satellitecat 12y ago
One thing I've found is that honey is an amazing sore-throat cure.
- contingencies 12y ago
  For coughs, check out olive leaf extract. I very rarely recommend things, but it's amazing how suddenly and completely it makes you stop coughing!
  - mrfusion 12y ago
    That sounds amazing. Can you recommend a brand, dosage? Are you saying it cures the cough or just suppresses it?
    - contingencies 12y ago
      Two tablets (recommended daily max) suppresses for me the actual coughing within 15 minutes absolutely and completely for about 6 hours. Brand here in Australia is 'Living Healthy'. Each capsule: (1) 2.92mg dry olive leaf (Olea europaea) (2) 35mg equiv. to Oleuropein (3) 100mg Arographis paniculata leaf dry (4) 2.5mg equiv. to Andrographolide (5) 5mg zinc gluconate. Image @ http://www.terrywhitechemists.com.au/living-healthy-olive-leaf-extract-120-capsules.html http://www.terrywhitechemists.com.au/living-healthy-olive-le... ... manufacturer 'Orion Laboratories' recently acquired by http://www.perrigo.com.au/ http://www.perrigo.com.au/
  - anonbanker 12y ago
    replying as breadcrumbs so I can reference this remedy later.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
marincounty 12y ago
That Placebo Effect is so strong I don't even bother to debunk natural remedies. Plus, I might be throwing the baby out with the bath water, but right now I'm very skeptical of a lot of pharmacuticals studies. They just lied to us so many times when it comes to the efficacy of their newest drug.
- pdabbadabba 12y ago
  I get your skepticism, but does it not help that pharmaceutical studies are closely reviewed by the FDA before a drug can be marketed? Getting a new drug approved is far from easy.
  - duwease 12y ago
    Not nearly as much as you might think. Check out "Bad Pharma" by Ben Goldacre. It's a treatment of the statistical and legal tricks used by drug companies to overstate the efficacy of new drugs, without breaking any actual FDA regulations. Even after using all the known tricks for cherry-picking results, p-hacking, and the like, there exist much-abused FDA 'fast track' options for getting a 'needed' drug out before the science is confirmed, and quite often the science never gets around to being confirmed. Even big-name drugs like Tamiflu have been shown later to be no better than generics at best and completely useless at worst.
  - pc2g4d 12y ago
    It's also not that hard---perform your own research, under conditions you specify, using analysis methods you dictate, with the ability to retry over and over and over until a favorable result arises by chance, THEN the FDA scrutinizes it.
  - fit2rule 12y ago
    The same FDA that is staffed by ex-pharmaceutical executives, and the same pharmaceutical companies that are staffed by ex-FDA staff? The FDA is really not something you can reasonably, or should, trust.
Zaheer 12y ago
There's quite a lot of anecdotal evidence in support of both. Lemons for colds are more a relief than a cure according to [1]. The way I tend to look at, people have survived/healed themselves for thousands of years prior to the advent of modern medicine. Some methods are not that effective while many others are even if due to a placebo effect. A large part of staying healthy I believe is being preventative. Many 'normal' activities can actually be coined as cures to common ailments. Staying active, sleep, eating healthy, not over-eating etc. [1] http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/common-cold/in-depth/cold-remedies/art-20046403 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/common-cold/in...
- relaytheurgency 12y ago
  Prior to the advent of modern medicine people didn't heal themselves. They died at record rates from things that are minor inconveniences now.
  - Zaheer 12y ago
    I'm mostly referring to symptoms and lesser illnesses such as colds, headaches, sores and such
    - relaytheurgency 12y ago
      An open wound was almost certainly a recipe for gangrene prior to antiseptics and antibiotics.
      - Zaheer 12y ago
        I think this straying from my main point. All I was trying to say is when possible stick to natural stuff in all other circumstances I'm all for modern medicines.
      - eurleif 12y ago
        In this study[0], honey compares favorably to silver sulfadiazine dressing for healing burn wounds. [0] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845359/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845359/
fit2rule 12y ago
Try it for yourself, and don't be so dependent on third parties to tell you how to live your life. There's nothing to lose and a whole world of independence to gain. Honey and lemon is awesome if you have a cold - if you're not trying it yourself because there isn't a study to prove its efficacy, then you're missing out on one of the true great values in life: experiencing things for yourself.

scott_s 12y ago

I feel obligated to say that "alternative medicine" means treatment attempts that are not based on science or evidence.

gress 12y ago
They are based on evidence, but that evidence has not been scientifically evaluated.
- justinsteele 12y ago
  And given how that worked for cultures before the modern age, I'll stick to those who choose to study medicine. Not those who simply prescribe whatever they felt worked once, for a reason unknown to them.
  - gress 12y ago
    Why do you need a straw man to justify your point?
- scott_s 12y ago
  Which, to me, is equivalent to saying it's not based on evidence.
  - gress 12y ago
    Which means that you are also saying that the court system is not based on evidence.

sanderjd 12y ago

Honest question: what convinces you that over-the-counter drugs have a negative effect rather than a neutral or even positive effect?

meursault334 12y ago
It's pretty well documented that over the counter pain killers such as acetaminophen, aspirin, and ibuprofen can have long term negative consequences with long term use. Allergy meds appear to be joining this group. In many cases the threshold for harm is fairly low in terms of lifetime cumulative dose. In some cases there are long-term benefits to these drugs(aspirin for instance) but there are definitely downsides. That isn't to say that pursuing alternative treatments to colds and allergies makes sense.