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"it's a serious martial art" It may be a serious, and quite cool, sport. But i don't think something that has zero real world practicability or application fal

"it's a serious martial art" It may be a serious, and quite cool, sport. But i don't think something that has zero real world practicability or application falls under the banner of a "martial art".

medecau 12y ago
It's sitting on the top of the front page with 28 points. I've got no idea why I keep coming to HN looking for hacker news.
- boothead 12y ago
  Well this is closer to the original meaning of "hacking" I guess :-)
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    It is very "close to the metal".
    - nathan_long 12y ago
      It involves a lot of low-latency pings.
  - tomrod 12y ago
    Touche.
- davidw 12y ago
  As someone who is more than happy to complain about (and flag!) political articles, this seems to qualify as something people just find 'interesting'. It's probably not flame bait, and isn't likely to retread tired old political or economic arguments. I don't happen to find this one particularly interesting, but am happy to just ignore it and vote other stuff up.
- SeanDav 12y ago
  > I've got no idea why I keep coming to HN looking for hacker news. By "Hacker News" I presume you mean news that hackers find interesting? In which case, that is your answer.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Just for interest: why isn't this hacker news? What would you prefer to see on HN?
- ht_th 12y ago
  Yes, I come here to read up on programming, ICT, and the information society, but one of the things I like most about aggregation-type sites like hackernews, reddit, and slashdot is to be surprised about intriguing thing I had no idea existed. If I imagine the internet usage of the visitors of hackernews as a enormous Venn diagram with each visitor his own circle, these type of articles allow me to look beyond the border of my own circle into the circles overlapping mine most, allowing me to expand my circle.
archon 12y ago
A martial art does not have to be directly usable in the real world to still be a martial art. Martial arts are about training the mind and body. Some of them happen to have practical defensive uses, others don't.
lojack 12y ago
The same could be said about Sumo, or any number of other varieties of martial arts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_martial_arts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_martial_arts
ta_U7m4_x2 12y ago
>i don't think something that has zero real world practicability or application falls under the banner of a "martial art". Tell that to aikido...
- cm2012 12y ago
  Aikido has a handful of moves that are really useful in real life - but its true that most of them are too artsy to work in practice, especially on an opponent bigger than you.
  - bluedino 12y ago
    They work - it's just that your average practitioner hasn't mastered them yet.
    - ropman76 12y ago
      True. As someone who just started aikido last year there are some moves that I would not attempt in a dangerous situation do to lack of mastery. However I have done ikkyo so many times from various starts that it could be used very effectively in a tense situation. Hopefully I never have to find out :)
    - cm2012 12y ago
      Yeah, my dad is a black belt in Aikido, and actually used it to make the training program that all New York State court officers go through. Definitely some good techniques in there for fast control.
    - rodgerd 12y ago
      Utopias can never fail, they can only be failed.
- renox 12y ago
  Thanks for the laugh. I recall thinking when watching an aikido lesson: okay the teacher (who had 20+ years of aikido and of other martial arts) could use his aikido knowledge in a fight, the other(1) definitely not! And it could even be dangerous if they believed that they could use their aikido knowledge to fight, not that this is unique to aikido.. 1: even those of who were black belt
jonnathanson 12y ago
A lot of martial arts are wildly impractical in 99.99% of everyday circumstances. The list includes almost all martial arts involving bladed weaponry, most martial arts involving canes or blunt instruments, and most of the classical, unarmed arts that a layperson would recognize. This is one of the major reasons why "practical" martial arts, such as Krav Maga, have become so popular in recent years. It doesn't mean the less practical arts are not "arts," or are somehow not "martial." The history of martial arts is a history of the militaries, weapons, circumstances, etc., that have given rise to the need for formalized combat styles throughout the world. In feudal Japan, for instance, it was probably a very helpful and practical thing to be well-versed in the art of the samurai sword. In present-day Japan, a bit less so. Some martial arts are practical in 2015. Some martial arts were practical in 1915, and some were practical in 1515. Circumstances change. The stuff people wear, or carry around with them everyday, or bring into a combat zone, change pretty quickly and dramatically. And of course, some martial arts have never really been practical at all, being used mainly for ceremony, discipline, and lifestyle.
- bluedino 12y ago
  Ahhh, Krava Maga. You can't even practice it at anywhere near 100% like you an other martial arts. If you can't practice something to the fullest extent you can never perform it that way when the situation is required.
- ensignavenger 12y ago
  "wildly impractical in 99.99% of everyday circumstances" I would hope so! If an average, everyday person needed to deploy martial in more than 1 out of every 10,000 of their normal, everyday circumstances, it would be a very sad state for humanity :)
  - jonnathanson 12y ago
    Well, of course. :) Putting aside the obvious, though, let's extend that 99.99% of "everyday circumstances" into what we'd call "highly unusual circumstances." A bar fight, for instance, or a mugging at knifepoint, or worse. Obviously, your best move in these circumstances is to avoid the fight altogether. But if you have no choice, then your knowledge of——even mastery of——many of the more prominent martial arts won't help you. There are many reasons why this is the case. I'll go over two or three of them. First, many of these martial arts were developed a very long while ago, in very different eras, with very different combatants in mind. Second, many of these martial arts are actually "staged" versions of real combat. If you're a karate master, for instance, you are mostly trained on how to fight combatants also using karate, who've been taught the same moves, the same stances, and the same patterns. Or, at least, you assume they've learned similar variants. Now, in a bar fight with a drunk, who's maybe got a few pounds on you, and is going to come out fighting irrationally and unpredictably, all of your karate staging, and your karate timing, and your karate pattern-seeking flies right out the window. Your mind will be addled by adrenaline. Your reflexes will be clumsy and jittery. You won't have time to think. If you've received very formal training, you may well panic and forget it. Modern arts are a lot less formal, because many of them were designed with modern fights in mind——be it a close grapple with an enemy soldier on a battlefield, or a standoff against an aggressive assailant in a dark alley. Full disclosure: I'm a 99-pound pencilneck who couldn't take your grandmother in a fist fight. I trained in karate to a fairly high level as a young teenager. To this day, I harbor no illusions that my karate will do anything for me, other than earn the occasional Daniel LaRusso joke.
MrGando 12y ago
This comment is so ignorant it makes me sad. What about Sumo and Kendo? (and many others). A quick Wikipedia quote: "Martial arts are codified systems and traditions of combat practices, which are practiced for a variety of reasons: self-defense, competition, physical health and fitness, entertainment, as well as mental, physical, and spiritual development." I guess it's hard for you to understand the value of physical health, entertainment, mental, physical and spiritual development. This is something that people in these boards should value a lot more, and that can have a huge impact in your life. Sorry for the long reply, but your comment made me feel sad for you.
- Mithaldu 12y ago
  I appreciated most comments that replied to my post. I made it clear that "i thought" that way, because i wasn't sure if my thoughts represented facts or not. Most of the other comments take the time to provide helpful information and educate me, which is cool and what i hoped for. Only you take the time to belittle me based off 2 sentences. In the same vein as you presume to proscribe to the rest of the board that they need to lead better lives, i ask you to please try and lead a more compassionate life. :)
  - MrGando 12y ago
    Hey there, My comment was -indeed- actually trying to be educative, at least it was my goal. In my phrase I should have stated that I was referring to many people that spend most of the day in boards like this one, I made a mistake and generalised in my statement. > "This is something that people in these boards should value a lot more" should be: > "This is something that a lot of people in these boards should value a lot more".
    - ta75757 12y ago
      I'm guessing the phrase the other poster was objecting to is "I guess it's hard for you to understand...".
      - 12y ago
dagw 12y ago
Unlike many martial arts practices today, there is a very real chance that most of the techniques in HEMA have been used extensively by real soldiers in real life and death combat. By any reasonable definition that should place it as far under the banner of martial arts as you can get.
gatesphere 12y ago
The longsword portion of the martial art may be impractical, but it's not studied in isolation. A good swordsman needs to have a damn good grasp on footwork, grappling, and wrestling. And disarms. All of those come in handy if you're being attacked and you're unarmed. I know a few (other) HEMA practicioners whose training has saved their lives...

"it's a serious martial art" It may be a serious, and quite cool, sport. But i don't think something that has zero real world practicability or application falls under the banner of a "martial art".

medecau 12y ago

It's sitting on the top of the front page with 28 points. I've got no idea why I keep coming to HN looking for hacker news.

boothead 12y ago
Well this is closer to the original meaning of "hacking" I guess :-)
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  It is very "close to the metal".
  - nathan_long 12y ago
    It involves a lot of low-latency pings.
- tomrod 12y ago
  Touche.
davidw 12y ago
As someone who is more than happy to complain about (and flag!) political articles, this seems to qualify as something people just find 'interesting'. It's probably not flame bait, and isn't likely to retread tired old political or economic arguments. I don't happen to find this one particularly interesting, but am happy to just ignore it and vote other stuff up.
SeanDav 12y ago
> I've got no idea why I keep coming to HN looking for hacker news. By "Hacker News" I presume you mean news that hackers find interesting? In which case, that is your answer.
DanBC 12y ago
Just for interest: why isn't this hacker news? What would you prefer to see on HN?
ht_th 12y ago
Yes, I come here to read up on programming, ICT, and the information society, but one of the things I like most about aggregation-type sites like hackernews, reddit, and slashdot is to be surprised about intriguing thing I had no idea existed. If I imagine the internet usage of the visitors of hackernews as a enormous Venn diagram with each visitor his own circle, these type of articles allow me to look beyond the border of my own circle into the circles overlapping mine most, allowing me to expand my circle.

archon 12y ago

A martial art does not have to be directly usable in the real world to still be a martial art. Martial arts are about training the mind and body. Some of them happen to have practical defensive uses, others don't.

lojack 12y ago

The same could be said about Sumo, or any number of other varieties of martial arts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_martial_arts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_martial_arts

ta_U7m4_x2 12y ago

>i don't think something that has zero real world practicability or application falls under the banner of a "martial art". Tell that to aikido...

cm2012 12y ago
Aikido has a handful of moves that are really useful in real life - but its true that most of them are too artsy to work in practice, especially on an opponent bigger than you.
- bluedino 12y ago
  They work - it's just that your average practitioner hasn't mastered them yet.
  - ropman76 12y ago
    True. As someone who just started aikido last year there are some moves that I would not attempt in a dangerous situation do to lack of mastery. However I have done ikkyo so many times from various starts that it could be used very effectively in a tense situation. Hopefully I never have to find out :)
  - cm2012 12y ago
    Yeah, my dad is a black belt in Aikido, and actually used it to make the training program that all New York State court officers go through. Definitely some good techniques in there for fast control.
  - rodgerd 12y ago
    Utopias can never fail, they can only be failed.
renox 12y ago
Thanks for the laugh. I recall thinking when watching an aikido lesson: okay the teacher (who had 20+ years of aikido and of other martial arts) could use his aikido knowledge in a fight, the other(1) definitely not! And it could even be dangerous if they believed that they could use their aikido knowledge to fight, not that this is unique to aikido.. 1: even those of who were black belt

jonnathanson 12y ago

A lot of martial arts are wildly impractical in 99.99% of everyday circumstances. The list includes almost all martial arts involving bladed weaponry, most martial arts involving canes or blunt instruments, and most of the classical, unarmed arts that a layperson would recognize. This is one of the major reasons why "practical" martial arts, such as Krav Maga, have become so popular in recent years. It doesn't mean the less practical arts are not "arts," or are somehow not "martial." The history of martial arts is a history of the militaries, weapons, circumstances, etc., that have given rise to the need for formalized combat styles throughout the world. In feudal Japan, for instance, it was probably a very helpful and practical thing to be well-versed in the art of the samurai sword. In present-day Japan, a bit less so. Some martial arts are practical in 2015. Some martial arts were practical in 1915, and some were practical in 1515. Circumstances change. The stuff people wear, or carry around with them everyday, or bring into a combat zone, change pretty quickly and dramatically. And of course, some martial arts have never really been practical at all, being used mainly for ceremony, discipline, and lifestyle.

bluedino 12y ago
Ahhh, Krava Maga. You can't even practice it at anywhere near 100% like you an other martial arts. If you can't practice something to the fullest extent you can never perform it that way when the situation is required.
ensignavenger 12y ago
"wildly impractical in 99.99% of everyday circumstances" I would hope so! If an average, everyday person needed to deploy martial in more than 1 out of every 10,000 of their normal, everyday circumstances, it would be a very sad state for humanity :)
- jonnathanson 12y ago
  Well, of course. :) Putting aside the obvious, though, let's extend that 99.99% of "everyday circumstances" into what we'd call "highly unusual circumstances." A bar fight, for instance, or a mugging at knifepoint, or worse. Obviously, your best move in these circumstances is to avoid the fight altogether. But if you have no choice, then your knowledge of——even mastery of——many of the more prominent martial arts won't help you. There are many reasons why this is the case. I'll go over two or three of them. First, many of these martial arts were developed a very long while ago, in very different eras, with very different combatants in mind. Second, many of these martial arts are actually "staged" versions of real combat. If you're a karate master, for instance, you are mostly trained on how to fight combatants also using karate, who've been taught the same moves, the same stances, and the same patterns. Or, at least, you assume they've learned similar variants. Now, in a bar fight with a drunk, who's maybe got a few pounds on you, and is going to come out fighting irrationally and unpredictably, all of your karate staging, and your karate timing, and your karate pattern-seeking flies right out the window. Your mind will be addled by adrenaline. Your reflexes will be clumsy and jittery. You won't have time to think. If you've received very formal training, you may well panic and forget it. Modern arts are a lot less formal, because many of them were designed with modern fights in mind——be it a close grapple with an enemy soldier on a battlefield, or a standoff against an aggressive assailant in a dark alley. Full disclosure: I'm a 99-pound pencilneck who couldn't take your grandmother in a fist fight. I trained in karate to a fairly high level as a young teenager. To this day, I harbor no illusions that my karate will do anything for me, other than earn the occasional Daniel LaRusso joke.

MrGando 12y ago

This comment is so ignorant it makes me sad. What about Sumo and Kendo? (and many others). A quick Wikipedia quote: "Martial arts are codified systems and traditions of combat practices, which are practiced for a variety of reasons: self-defense, competition, physical health and fitness, entertainment, as well as mental, physical, and spiritual development." I guess it's hard for you to understand the value of physical health, entertainment, mental, physical and spiritual development. This is something that people in these boards should value a lot more, and that can have a huge impact in your life. Sorry for the long reply, but your comment made me feel sad for you.

Mithaldu 12y ago
I appreciated most comments that replied to my post. I made it clear that "i thought" that way, because i wasn't sure if my thoughts represented facts or not. Most of the other comments take the time to provide helpful information and educate me, which is cool and what i hoped for. Only you take the time to belittle me based off 2 sentences. In the same vein as you presume to proscribe to the rest of the board that they need to lead better lives, i ask you to please try and lead a more compassionate life. :)
- MrGando 12y ago
  Hey there, My comment was -indeed- actually trying to be educative, at least it was my goal. In my phrase I should have stated that I was referring to many people that spend most of the day in boards like this one, I made a mistake and generalised in my statement. > "This is something that people in these boards should value a lot more" should be: > "This is something that a lot of people in these boards should value a lot more".
  - ta75757 12y ago
    I'm guessing the phrase the other poster was objecting to is "I guess it's hard for you to understand...".
    - 12y ago

dagw 12y ago

Unlike many martial arts practices today, there is a very real chance that most of the techniques in HEMA have been used extensively by real soldiers in real life and death combat. By any reasonable definition that should place it as far under the banner of martial arts as you can get.

gatesphere 12y ago

The longsword portion of the martial art may be impractical, but it's not studied in isolation. A good swordsman needs to have a damn good grasp on footwork, grappling, and wrestling. And disarms. All of those come in handy if you're being attacked and you're unarmed. I know a few (other) HEMA practicioners whose training has saved their lives...