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Any source for these notable facts? > It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief. Obnoxi

Any source for these notable facts? > It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief. Obnoxious beyond belief. You're saying "he should know better and hide the perfectly legal thing that he was doing". In the same line of thought, if you're learning Arabic online without going through Tor, you're asking for it. Right? EDIT: Found the source[1]. The full context is: > The flashcards included every day words and phrases such as “day before yesterday,” “fat,” “thin,” “really,” “nice,” “sad,” “cheap,” “summer,” “pink,” and “friendly.” However, they also contained such words as: “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” Doesn't sound like he handed the TSA agent 10 suspicious flashcards, which is the point you're making, but rather that these words are as relevant in a Middle-Eastern context as they are in an English context. So, this guy is guilty of not censoring his flashcards pre-emptively. Yes, I see your PoV now. [1] https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/george-v-rehiel_3rd_cir_qi_ruling.pdf https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/george-v-reh...

zaroth 12y ago
Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting that handing these cards directly to a TSA agent will get you red flagged. Does that really surprise you? Basically Nick did everything possible to be the absolutely weirdest guy TSA saw that month. If they don't flag this, what do they flag? Even the alleged line of questioning by the TSA officer isn't even necessarily that bad depending on how you imagine it; Agent: "You know who did 9/11?" Nick: "Osama bin Laden." Agent: "Do you know what language he spoke?" Nick: "Arabic." [Agent: rifling through flash cards saying "Bomb", "Terrorist", "To Kidnap", incredulous look on her face... Shrugs looking a Nick] Agent: "Do you see why these cards are suspicious?!" Note the last sentence in the court documents does not start with "So". Anyway, no one in the entire case was arguing that TSA did anything wrong, just the police detention that followed. Edit: Look, it's a really great headline, and just reading the ACLU post initially got my blood boiling. Then I read the first few pages of court documents and my opinion moderated quite a bit. So I thought the discussion would benefit from a more complete airing of the facts. Sorry if it doesn't fit the narrative!
- yourad_io 12y ago
  > At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Come on. Half of these are basic vocabulary and the other half are contextually relevant. Grab a random newspaper; you'll likely find 90% of them somewhere.
  - zaroth 12y ago
    "Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) I took several years of [French] foreign language, never did I ever learn those vocab words. What a world we live in. "Ou est les toilettes?" "Un pain au chocolat et un cafe s'il vous plait." ... "Est-ce une bombe dans votre sac à dos?" It's a fantastic Onion-worthy title, but IMO Nick was inconvenienced for his lack of critical thinking skills on this one. By comparison, a Brooklyn man gets $75k for being dragged out of his car and choked. [1] [1] - http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nyc-settles-lawsuit-75000-2013-police-chokehold-28327919 http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nyc-settles-lawsuit-75000...
    - yourad_io 12y ago
      > "Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) It's true on a global scale, not just in the Arabic context. As you immerse yourself in a language, you're encouraged to follow newspapers/articles/tv/shows/etc. It is entirely unreasonable to censor your own learning process. Take this unfortunately common headline: Death toll of Yemen anti-Houthi bomb blast rises to 49.[1] Now censor your knowledge: [? ?] of Yemen anti-Houthi [? ?] rises to 49. Also, aren't we overlooking the fact that the TSA isn't the NSA/DHS? Did they guy have any things that could endanger the flight and his fellow passengers? Indisputably NOT. How is arresting him because of "suspicious literature" (a) acceptable and (b) within their jurisdiction? Report him to the NSA/DHS as an Arabic learner, if you like, and have them add it to his file, but arresting him? Isn't their job to make sure that he isn't sneaking [explodey things] onto airplanes? To make a broader point: this is exactly what Schneier means by "security theater". If someone is a genuine threat, you can bet your ass he won't be carrying "suspicious" flashcards in airports. As they'd need to avoid suspicion/detention at all costs, every piece of their luggage/carryon would be scrutinized before they even got to the airport. This hostility and pre-emptive guilt serves nothing except for ticking boxes in procedure reports and power trips. > What a world we live in. You can say that again. [1] http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/01/01/Death-toll-of-Yemen-anti-Houthi-bomb-blast-rises-to-49.html http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/01/01/...
ninguem2 12y ago
If one's goal in learning Arabic were to become an intelligence agent at the NSA, CIA,... (which are probably the largest employers of Arabic translators in the US) wouldn't this be the natural choice of vocabulary to be studying?

zaroth 12y ago

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting that handing these cards directly to a TSA agent will get you red flagged. Does that really surprise you? Basically Nick did everything possible to be the absolutely weirdest guy TSA saw that month. If they don't flag this, what do they flag? Even the alleged line of questioning by the TSA officer isn't even necessarily that bad depending on how you imagine it; Agent: "You know who did 9/11?" Nick: "Osama bin Laden." Agent: "Do you know what language he spoke?" Nick: "Arabic." [Agent: rifling through flash cards saying "Bomb", "Terrorist", "To Kidnap", incredulous look on her face... Shrugs looking a Nick] Agent: "Do you see why these cards are suspicious?!" Note the last sentence in the court documents does not start with "So". Anyway, no one in the entire case was arguing that TSA did anything wrong, just the police detention that followed. Edit: Look, it's a really great headline, and just reading the ACLU post initially got my blood boiling. Then I read the first few pages of court documents and my opinion moderated quite a bit. So I thought the discussion would benefit from a more complete airing of the facts. Sorry if it doesn't fit the narrative!

yourad_io 12y ago
> At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Come on. Half of these are basic vocabulary and the other half are contextually relevant. Grab a random newspaper; you'll likely find 90% of them somewhere.
- zaroth 12y ago
  "Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) I took several years of [French] foreign language, never did I ever learn those vocab words. What a world we live in. "Ou est les toilettes?" "Un pain au chocolat et un cafe s'il vous plait." ... "Est-ce une bombe dans votre sac à dos?" It's a fantastic Onion-worthy title, but IMO Nick was inconvenienced for his lack of critical thinking skills on this one. By comparison, a Brooklyn man gets $75k for being dragged out of his car and choked. [1] [1] - http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nyc-settles-lawsuit-75000-2013-police-chokehold-28327919 http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nyc-settles-lawsuit-75000...
  - yourad_io 12y ago
    > "Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) It's true on a global scale, not just in the Arabic context. As you immerse yourself in a language, you're encouraged to follow newspapers/articles/tv/shows/etc. It is entirely unreasonable to censor your own learning process. Take this unfortunately common headline: Death toll of Yemen anti-Houthi bomb blast rises to 49.[1] Now censor your knowledge: [? ?] of Yemen anti-Houthi [? ?] rises to 49. Also, aren't we overlooking the fact that the TSA isn't the NSA/DHS? Did they guy have any things that could endanger the flight and his fellow passengers? Indisputably NOT. How is arresting him because of "suspicious literature" (a) acceptable and (b) within their jurisdiction? Report him to the NSA/DHS as an Arabic learner, if you like, and have them add it to his file, but arresting him? Isn't their job to make sure that he isn't sneaking [explodey things] onto airplanes? To make a broader point: this is exactly what Schneier means by "security theater". If someone is a genuine threat, you can bet your ass he won't be carrying "suspicious" flashcards in airports. As they'd need to avoid suspicion/detention at all costs, every piece of their luggage/carryon would be scrutinized before they even got to the airport. This hostility and pre-emptive guilt serves nothing except for ticking boxes in procedure reports and power trips. > What a world we live in. You can say that again. [1] http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/01/01/Death-toll-of-Yemen-anti-Houthi-bomb-blast-rises-to-49.html http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/01/01/...

ninguem2 12y ago

If one's goal in learning Arabic were to become an intelligence agent at the NSA, CIA,... (which are probably the largest employers of Arabic translators in the US) wouldn't this be the natural choice of vocabulary to be studying?