4 ms·

This sort of attitude is disgusting. As if the the majority of US citizens can not be classified as crime-prone peasants in one wanted to say it. The US is a c

by tensor 17y ago

This sort of attitude is disgusting. As if the the majority of US citizens can not be classified as crime-prone peasants in one wanted to say it. The US is a county of immigrants. The US is only 300 years old and it's hugely amusing to see US citizens talk poorly about the countries of their parents, grand parents, and great grandparents. If you've ever wondered why the rest of the world tends to think poorly of the US, this is it.

codexon 17y ago
I see this sort of argument far too often. Of course the US is a country of immigrants just as every other country except Africa is a country of immigrants. There comes a point where it is prudent for the current residents to limit hordes of competitors pouring in to take the resources and infrastructure built within the past hundreds of years when their ancestors cozily stayed in their home countries while pioneers busted their nuts off as indentured servants or lived in isolation without "modern" infrastructure. Are you arguing that 300 years is too new? How about 400 years? Or 800 years? Where do we draw the line? How old does a country need to be to not offend the rest of the world in trying to keep their resources and infrastructure from being spread too thinly?
- drats 17y ago
  "Of course the US is a country of immigrants just as every other country except Africa is a country of immigrants." Africa is not a country.
  - codexon 17y ago
    Yes you are correct, but there is a loss of meaning by being pedantic. My comment would be meaningless to most people if instead of Africa I said a small region of Ethiopia, which probably wasn't even a country at that time, and probably a vastly different place due to continental shift.
prodigal_erik 17y ago
The census says the native born population has been over 86% for well over a century, so (assuming commonplace xenophobia) most of us have no living ancestors who immigrated. And I think there has long been a perception that emigration is such a drastic step that most were either raised by a poorly-functioning society (which they are now fleeing) or not highly valued by their society (which basically got rid of them). Even the proverbial "poor, tired, huddled massses" weren't eagerly welcomed, and they were racially and culturally more similar to the average native (and more willing to assimilate) than many immigrants today.
- foldr 17y ago
  >and they were racially and culturally more similar to the average native You're speaking as if there were some completely objective and ahistorical measure of racial and cultural similarity. Many of these groups are considered to be racially and culturally similar to the "average native" today precisely _because_ they immigrated some time ago. Italians, for example, were not considered to be white even up to the mid 20th century.
  - prodigal_erik 17y ago
    There are degrees of it. Italians got the "slaves of the antichrist pope" and "don't let your kid marry one" hate, but not the "they don't have souls like human beings" or "they're secretly cannibals" hate.
catzaa 17y ago
I agree with the above poster. The US government must act in the best interest of their citizens and no one else. That means that they should give green cards and VISAs to people that will add value to the USA (scientists, college graduates). But they should not allow the social problems of other countries in (i.e. the bottom of the pile). The lower echelons of 3rd world society are often drawn to immigrate to 1st world countries since they can earn a decent salary w.r.t their lack of qualifications and get free health care/social services. > If you've ever wondered why the rest of the world tends to think poorly of the US, this is it. Europe has extremely strict immigration policies. Japan is stricter than 99% of all other countries. Yet the world does not think poorly of those countries. Why would the USA be an exception?
- hnhg 17y ago
  I can't help thinking that you're conflating being poor with being socially problematic. Poorer and less educated immigrants often do the jobs that no one else wants in their new home and take opportunities that were denied them in their home countries. Just think of all the past generations of poor Chinese, Irish and Italians that were vilified for being poor - and how things have moved on since then.
  - yardie 17y ago
    I would take care with a statement like this. Because I used to believe it than found out it wasn't true. Case in point. I grew up in an area with high immigration and they did do the jobs that no one else wanted. And because I only saw immigrants (Carribean, South and Central American) doing these jobs, cutting grass for example, I assumed it must be true. So imagine my surprise when I went to a university in the appalachians and I saw white people cutting grass. I was shocked to see white people cut grass because 1) I never saw it happen before, 2) I was always told cutting grass was done by immigrants because no one else wanted the job. So no, there is no such thing as a job no one wants. A job market works like the free market. If the wage is too low you can increase the wage until someone takes it. Using cheap immigrant labour distorts the free market the same way buying knockoffs does. A job no one wants is not a valid defense to support immigration.

by tensor 17y ago

codexon 17y ago

I see this sort of argument far too often. Of course the US is a country of immigrants just as every other country except Africa is a country of immigrants. There comes a point where it is prudent for the current residents to limit hordes of competitors pouring in to take the resources and infrastructure built within the past hundreds of years when their ancestors cozily stayed in their home countries while pioneers busted their nuts off as indentured servants or lived in isolation without "modern" infrastructure. Are you arguing that 300 years is too new? How about 400 years? Or 800 years? Where do we draw the line? How old does a country need to be to not offend the rest of the world in trying to keep their resources and infrastructure from being spread too thinly?

drats 17y ago
"Of course the US is a country of immigrants just as every other country except Africa is a country of immigrants." Africa is not a country.
- codexon 17y ago
  Yes you are correct, but there is a loss of meaning by being pedantic. My comment would be meaningless to most people if instead of Africa I said a small region of Ethiopia, which probably wasn't even a country at that time, and probably a vastly different place due to continental shift.

prodigal_erik 17y ago

The census says the native born population has been over 86% for well over a century, so (assuming commonplace xenophobia) most of us have no living ancestors who immigrated. And I think there has long been a perception that emigration is such a drastic step that most were either raised by a poorly-functioning society (which they are now fleeing) or not highly valued by their society (which basically got rid of them). Even the proverbial "poor, tired, huddled massses" weren't eagerly welcomed, and they were racially and culturally more similar to the average native (and more willing to assimilate) than many immigrants today.

foldr 17y ago
>and they were racially and culturally more similar to the average native You're speaking as if there were some completely objective and ahistorical measure of racial and cultural similarity. Many of these groups are considered to be racially and culturally similar to the "average native" today precisely _because_ they immigrated some time ago. Italians, for example, were not considered to be white even up to the mid 20th century.
- prodigal_erik 17y ago
  There are degrees of it. Italians got the "slaves of the antichrist pope" and "don't let your kid marry one" hate, but not the "they don't have souls like human beings" or "they're secretly cannibals" hate.

catzaa 17y ago

I agree with the above poster. The US government must act in the best interest of their citizens and no one else. That means that they should give green cards and VISAs to people that will add value to the USA (scientists, college graduates). But they should not allow the social problems of other countries in (i.e. the bottom of the pile). The lower echelons of 3rd world society are often drawn to immigrate to 1st world countries since they can earn a decent salary w.r.t their lack of qualifications and get free health care/social services. > If you've ever wondered why the rest of the world tends to think poorly of the US, this is it. Europe has extremely strict immigration policies. Japan is stricter than 99% of all other countries. Yet the world does not think poorly of those countries. Why would the USA be an exception?

hnhg 17y ago
I can't help thinking that you're conflating being poor with being socially problematic. Poorer and less educated immigrants often do the jobs that no one else wants in their new home and take opportunities that were denied them in their home countries. Just think of all the past generations of poor Chinese, Irish and Italians that were vilified for being poor - and how things have moved on since then.
- yardie 17y ago
  I would take care with a statement like this. Because I used to believe it than found out it wasn't true. Case in point. I grew up in an area with high immigration and they did do the jobs that no one else wanted. And because I only saw immigrants (Carribean, South and Central American) doing these jobs, cutting grass for example, I assumed it must be true. So imagine my surprise when I went to a university in the appalachians and I saw white people cutting grass. I was shocked to see white people cut grass because 1) I never saw it happen before, 2) I was always told cutting grass was done by immigrants because no one else wanted the job. So no, there is no such thing as a job no one wants. A job market works like the free market. If the wage is too low you can increase the wage until someone takes it. Using cheap immigrant labour distorts the free market the same way buying knockoffs does. A job no one wants is not a valid defense to support immigration.