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My friend and university classmate - a kind of wounderkind. He was accepted to university without exams, because he had great results on programming olympics.

My friend and university classmate - a kind of wounderkind. He was accepted to university without exams, because he had great results on programming olympics. Turned out he was also good at chemistry. When he was around 8 his mother arranged him to take chemistry classes with elder schoolchildren. But he dropped the classes because he was borred - he already knew everything taught there. In university he tried drugs (marijuana, mushrooms). He also bought Hofmann's book with all the formulas and started cooking himslef. One day he jumped off the roof of their apartment building. His mother found him. She said at first sight she thought it was some garbadge on the street, and then recognized her son. On his computer he left open Richard Bach's book, with selection active on the phrase "you can fly, Jonathan". He left a note between pages of the Exupéry's book (I don't know exactly on what place, his relatives hadn't pay to that at the moment). The note said to dispel the ashes over the ocean. The guy doesn't care - he is dead and feels nothing. But it was horrible to see his mother, and father too. He was the only child. This case makes me doubt LSD and drugs in general are harmless. I also have evidence the "inspiration" when you're on drugs is false, and actually it's more like a delirium. Please, don't promote drugs. UPDATE: Surprisingly, some people even down-vote this comment, and convince me in telling false story. If so, what are my motives? If you care, you can find plenty of documented evidence of drugs danger. BTW, he jumped not because he "convinced himself he can fly", as many commenters suggested. His note said to dispel the ashes over the ocean. If you heard something similar before - it doesn't make the story false, other way around, looks like such things happened more than once. In my case I am describing a real person I knew for years, and was present on his funeral. This thread, and many comments here suggest a conspiracy theory -like idea, that anti drug laws and information is a malicious and false propaganda, imposed by state and society. Sorry, but it's just stupid. It is irresponsible and inappropriate to promote drugs (LSD or whatever). And off-topic for Hacker News. There are people who unstable, who have internal emotional conflicts, etc. For them drug use may be a catastrophe.

stuaxo 12y ago
Wow this is awful. Doing any drug by oneself is a bad idea. Something like LSD is a terrible idea. While it might be OK, you need people around you and the right conditions - since it makes you think a bit differently. I doubt any one that was with other people who knew what they were doing would end up like this.
Lambdanaut 12y ago
You are fear-mongering and your argument is pure pathos. If the guy was cooking, he probably wasn't doing LSD at the time of death. LSD is notoriously difficult to homebrew and it was more likely he was doing something that we actually have reason to believe is bad for you. All drugs aren't the same and blanketing them all as negative because somebody died on a specific drug is ridiculous.
quonn 12y ago
I know this is not the main point of your post, but the part that I feel I can comment on: > I also have evidence the "inspiration" whe[n] you [are] on drugs is false, and actually it's more like a delirium. What does that mean, "false"? The way some of us usually perceive reality might not be true either. Just ask someone suffering from serious depression. It's often a problem of perspective, but they can't simply change that. Being stuck in a particular view also applies to most ordinary people, although this does not necessarily cause suffering. The people who claim LSD is mind-expanding refer to just this: That it might allow you to make such a change of perspective that you otherwise can't. (I don't mean to say drugs are the way to go if your depressed, by the way. Maybe try meditation.)
- avodonosov 12y ago
  Well, changing perspective, it's all good. What I mean, changes in reasoning on drugs are largely glitches, reasoning mistakes due to wrong logical connections and associations between things, which are not really associate. It's like a delirium. But because drugs also induce euphoria, people think their conclusions and insights are great breakthroughs, new vision, etc. Actually, when they try to record these new ideas, and try to develop it further later, they find that the ideas are just shallow and based on some mistakes.
adityasankar 12y ago
If true, this story is heartbreaking, sorry for your loss. It may be insensitive to suggest this, but there may have been several other factors that contributed to this tragedy, not only LSD. Vilifying the chemical substance isn't the answer here, the same way cars aren't to blame for crashes. Sure, you may not want to take LSD based on your friends experience, but there are several other people in the world who have had positive experiences who will need better convincing.
eof 12y ago
Although that is a sad story, the story itself shows he was cognizant of what he was doing. I think very few people would argue LSD or any drug at all (caffeine included) are harmless in the strictest sense of the word. But perhaps the potential benefits vs the realistic risks are a good enough investment for some people to make. Hallucinogens are deeply intertwined with human culture; "promoting drugs" is such a silly idea. It's like "promoting eating".. people are going to do it, period. Being cognizant of the risks, and honest about the benefits is the only way to truly reduce the harm of drugs in general. Fear mongering, blanket statements, anti-drug cultural, none of that will ever quench what appears to be an innate human thirst for mind-altering substances. To accept this as true (which any cursory look at history will show to be the case), is the only way to ever move forward with drug use/abuse.
pmoriarty 12y ago
How many millions of people who never tried any drugs commited suicide? How many people commited suicide after drinking a glass of milk, smoking a cigarette, or drinking a beer? No doubt equally tragic stories could be told of many of them, but does it follow that milk, cigarettes, beer, or lack of drug use made them kill themselves?
olssy 12y ago
I first heard a variant of this story about 30 years ago, either a lot of kids killed themselves jumping out of windows on acid or it's an urban legend.
- Lambdanaut 12y ago
  Wikipedia and snopes seem to both think it's an urban legend. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misconceptions_about_drugs#Thought_they_could_fly_and_jumped_out_window.2Ffell_off_cliff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misconceptions_about_drugs#Thou...
- moe 12y ago
  http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp
- avodonosov 12y ago
  Urban legend is that drugs are mind expanding.
naturalrecursin 12y ago
Total bull. This story reads like pure drug war propaganda. Go promote your fear and hate somewhere else. if this is even a real story, which it most likely isn't, then I'm sure your "friend" had a mental illness. You're harming everyone by blaming LSD and drugs on this guys death. While your at it you should put the blame on the apartment building for being too high.
scythe 12y ago
>He also bought Hofmann's book with all the formulas and started cooking himself. Making drugs is extremely hard, even for people who know lots of chemistry. It also exposes you to a lot of nasty volatile chemicals that, believe me, are waaaaay worse for your brain than any psychedelic. For example, chloroform is a standard solvent used in the synthesis of LSD. In a proper research laboratory, the risks are minimized; in your garage, they aren't: bromomethane doesn't care if you're a genius. I have the unusual luck to have known several drug chemists. They're not an ordinary bunch of people, not by a long shot. Whether working with things like chlorine on improvised equipment is partially responsible for this pattern I'm not sure, but I think it suffices to say that your friend's case is at the zenith of psycho-chemical recklessness. (Also, the book[s] -- PiHKAL/TiHKAL -- are by Alexander Shulgin) That isn't a pattern that carries over to typical LSD users -- consider e.g.: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063972 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... It's also worth noting that people with schizophrenia may be drawn toward euphoric/stimulating drugs: http://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Abstract/1987/11000/A_Review_of_Psychoactive_Substance_Use_and_Abuse.1.aspx http://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Abstract/1987/11000/A_Review_o... Of course, one possibility is that all of these drugs cause schizophrenia; the other, that schizophrenia causes people to enjoy certain kinds of stimulation.
brickmort 12y ago
You mentioned that this person was a classmate of yours. Did you know him personally? Is there an article or some kind or obituary that you can link to? I hate to play devil's advocate, but this story has been told time and time again in different settings. sometimes it's a girl, sometimes its a college student, etc. but it always ends up with the person jumping out of a window/rooftop because they've convinced themselves that they can fly. I'm not saying that this particular story isn't true, but it's become the classic anti-LSD urban myth.
- avodonosov 12y ago
  He didn't convince himself he could fly - his note said to dispel the ashes over the ocean. I knew him personally, it was more than 10 years ago. If you heard some similar stories before - it's not strange, probably such things happened many times.
icpmacdo 12y ago
Bill Hicks point of view on this classic story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D0BeLz5blM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D0BeLz5blM
intopieces 12y ago
This sounds suspiciously like a certain episode of the HBO show Six Feet Under: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701990/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701990/
kirsebaer 12y ago
Very sad to hear about your friend. Suicide is one of the most common causes of deaths for young men. Overall, 1-2 people per 100 will die by suicide. Here is a new large epidemiology study which found that people who used psychedelics had lower rate of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempt: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/22/psychedelic-research_n_6515268.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/22/psychedelic-researc... It's important to take a statistical perspective when talking about risk.
- avodonosov 12y ago
  Good comment. But I think in this case the drugs had destabilizing effect on his mind and contributed significantly to the result. At that time he become strange and difficult to communicate. I am a big believer in scientific approach and statistics. Note though, that studies are often performed incorrectly. For example in your link they describe "reduced likelihood of past-year suicidal thinking" and "reduced likelihood of past-year suicidal planning". But the indicator to observe before making such conclusion is real "successful" suicide cases. We need to compare a drug-using group and non-using group, and compare the number of completed suicides in groups. For me, it would take more studies, rigid, reviewed and confirmed by other scientists, before shading doubts on psychedelics danger.

stuaxo 12y ago

Wow this is awful. Doing any drug by oneself is a bad idea. Something like LSD is a terrible idea. While it might be OK, you need people around you and the right conditions - since it makes you think a bit differently. I doubt any one that was with other people who knew what they were doing would end up like this.

Lambdanaut 12y ago

You are fear-mongering and your argument is pure pathos. If the guy was cooking, he probably wasn't doing LSD at the time of death. LSD is notoriously difficult to homebrew and it was more likely he was doing something that we actually have reason to believe is bad for you. All drugs aren't the same and blanketing them all as negative because somebody died on a specific drug is ridiculous.

quonn 12y ago

I know this is not the main point of your post, but the part that I feel I can comment on: > I also have evidence the "inspiration" whe[n] you [are] on drugs is false, and actually it's more like a delirium. What does that mean, "false"? The way some of us usually perceive reality might not be true either. Just ask someone suffering from serious depression. It's often a problem of perspective, but they can't simply change that. Being stuck in a particular view also applies to most ordinary people, although this does not necessarily cause suffering. The people who claim LSD is mind-expanding refer to just this: That it might allow you to make such a change of perspective that you otherwise can't. (I don't mean to say drugs are the way to go if your depressed, by the way. Maybe try meditation.)

avodonosov 12y ago
Well, changing perspective, it's all good. What I mean, changes in reasoning on drugs are largely glitches, reasoning mistakes due to wrong logical connections and associations between things, which are not really associate. It's like a delirium. But because drugs also induce euphoria, people think their conclusions and insights are great breakthroughs, new vision, etc. Actually, when they try to record these new ideas, and try to develop it further later, they find that the ideas are just shallow and based on some mistakes.

adityasankar 12y ago

If true, this story is heartbreaking, sorry for your loss. It may be insensitive to suggest this, but there may have been several other factors that contributed to this tragedy, not only LSD. Vilifying the chemical substance isn't the answer here, the same way cars aren't to blame for crashes. Sure, you may not want to take LSD based on your friends experience, but there are several other people in the world who have had positive experiences who will need better convincing.

eof 12y ago

Although that is a sad story, the story itself shows he was cognizant of what he was doing. I think very few people would argue LSD or any drug at all (caffeine included) are harmless in the strictest sense of the word. But perhaps the potential benefits vs the realistic risks are a good enough investment for some people to make. Hallucinogens are deeply intertwined with human culture; "promoting drugs" is such a silly idea. It's like "promoting eating".. people are going to do it, period. Being cognizant of the risks, and honest about the benefits is the only way to truly reduce the harm of drugs in general. Fear mongering, blanket statements, anti-drug cultural, none of that will ever quench what appears to be an innate human thirst for mind-altering substances. To accept this as true (which any cursory look at history will show to be the case), is the only way to ever move forward with drug use/abuse.

pmoriarty 12y ago

How many millions of people who never tried any drugs commited suicide? How many people commited suicide after drinking a glass of milk, smoking a cigarette, or drinking a beer? No doubt equally tragic stories could be told of many of them, but does it follow that milk, cigarettes, beer, or lack of drug use made them kill themselves?

olssy 12y ago

I first heard a variant of this story about 30 years ago, either a lot of kids killed themselves jumping out of windows on acid or it's an urban legend.

Lambdanaut 12y ago
Wikipedia and snopes seem to both think it's an urban legend. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misconceptions_about_drugs#Thought_they_could_fly_and_jumped_out_window.2Ffell_off_cliff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misconceptions_about_drugs#Thou...
moe 12y ago
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp
avodonosov 12y ago
Urban legend is that drugs are mind expanding.

naturalrecursin 12y ago

Total bull. This story reads like pure drug war propaganda. Go promote your fear and hate somewhere else. if this is even a real story, which it most likely isn't, then I'm sure your "friend" had a mental illness. You're harming everyone by blaming LSD and drugs on this guys death. While your at it you should put the blame on the apartment building for being too high.

scythe 12y ago

>He also bought Hofmann's book with all the formulas and started cooking himself. Making drugs is extremely hard, even for people who know lots of chemistry. It also exposes you to a lot of nasty volatile chemicals that, believe me, are waaaaay worse for your brain than any psychedelic. For example, chloroform is a standard solvent used in the synthesis of LSD. In a proper research laboratory, the risks are minimized; in your garage, they aren't: bromomethane doesn't care if you're a genius. I have the unusual luck to have known several drug chemists. They're not an ordinary bunch of people, not by a long shot. Whether working with things like chlorine on improvised equipment is partially responsible for this pattern I'm not sure, but I think it suffices to say that your friend's case is at the zenith of psycho-chemical recklessness. (Also, the book[s] -- PiHKAL/TiHKAL -- are by Alexander Shulgin) That isn't a pattern that carries over to typical LSD users -- consider e.g.: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063972 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... It's also worth noting that people with schizophrenia may be drawn toward euphoric/stimulating drugs: http://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Abstract/1987/11000/A_Review_of_Psychoactive_Substance_Use_and_Abuse.1.aspx http://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Abstract/1987/11000/A_Review_o... Of course, one possibility is that all of these drugs cause schizophrenia; the other, that schizophrenia causes people to enjoy certain kinds of stimulation.

brickmort 12y ago

You mentioned that this person was a classmate of yours. Did you know him personally? Is there an article or some kind or obituary that you can link to? I hate to play devil's advocate, but this story has been told time and time again in different settings. sometimes it's a girl, sometimes its a college student, etc. but it always ends up with the person jumping out of a window/rooftop because they've convinced themselves that they can fly. I'm not saying that this particular story isn't true, but it's become the classic anti-LSD urban myth.

avodonosov 12y ago
He didn't convince himself he could fly - his note said to dispel the ashes over the ocean. I knew him personally, it was more than 10 years ago. If you heard some similar stories before - it's not strange, probably such things happened many times.

icpmacdo 12y ago

Bill Hicks point of view on this classic story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D0BeLz5blM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D0BeLz5blM

intopieces 12y ago

This sounds suspiciously like a certain episode of the HBO show Six Feet Under: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701990/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701990/

kirsebaer 12y ago

Very sad to hear about your friend. Suicide is one of the most common causes of deaths for young men. Overall, 1-2 people per 100 will die by suicide. Here is a new large epidemiology study which found that people who used psychedelics had lower rate of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempt: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/22/psychedelic-research_n_6515268.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/22/psychedelic-researc... It's important to take a statistical perspective when talking about risk.

avodonosov 12y ago
Good comment. But I think in this case the drugs had destabilizing effect on his mind and contributed significantly to the result. At that time he become strange and difficult to communicate. I am a big believer in scientific approach and statistics. Note though, that studies are often performed incorrectly. For example in your link they describe "reduced likelihood of past-year suicidal thinking" and "reduced likelihood of past-year suicidal planning". But the indicator to observe before making such conclusion is real "successful" suicide cases. We need to compare a drug-using group and non-using group, and compare the number of completed suicides in groups. For me, it would take more studies, rigid, reviewed and confirmed by other scientists, before shading doubts on psychedelics danger.