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If all salary was displayed publicly it wouldn't help the employee. It would take almost all negotiating abilities away (a senior developer with 5 years of exp

If all salary was displayed publicly it wouldn't help the employee. It would take almost all negotiating abilities away (a senior developer with 5 years of experience will be paid the same rate as a senior developer with 10 years because companies don't want unhappy employees and people with the same titles will be upset they are not paid the same rate) and allow many companies to legally collude and pay similar rates (which will be the lowest they can get away with). For the individual, not having public salary works great because you really do have negotiating power. I no longer work for anyone, but when I did, I would regularly ask for a higher wage at my next company for essentially the same position. If my next company knows that all other companies in the industry are paying 20% less for my position, why would they pay me more? I've also heard stories from Sweden where larger companies will pull tax returns of the other companies (and employees) they are doing business with and will base their contracts on this information being a regular practice(giving lower rates because they know the company is making more money. Or even not dealing with the company at all because they are so small). I've never understood why smart people want to willingly give the more powerful in this world even more tools that will work against them.

Udik 12y ago
I agree. When salaries are not public, there is just one factor that influences them, that is, the value that the company puts on that employee and the fear of losing him/ her to a better offer. On the other hand, it's much easier for the company to reject a request for a pay rise because it might upset other employees. Note, this mechanism only works downwards: the company will never give a pay rise to nine employees on the grounds that the tenth already has a higher salary.
- tbrownaw 12y ago
  Note, this mechanism only works downwards: the company will never give a pay rise to nine employees on the grounds that the tenth already has a higher salary. You assume the outlier will always be at the high end. What happens when instead of one person being paid much more than everyone else, it's one person that's paid much less than everyone else?
jacalata 12y ago
There's a little cognitive dissonance there. You think that public salary info would be bad for everyone, because companies would no longer be willing to pay them far above average. But that's ignoring the obvious fact that the majority of people are not making far above average, so they don't have that to lose. Some of them are even making below average, so they would gain.
tbrownaw 12y ago
a senior developer with 5 years of experience will be paid the same rate as a senior developer with 10 years because companies don't want unhappy employees and people with the same titles will be upset they are not paid the same rate Really? People are all too stupid to understand the value of experience or skill? Personal experience says this is nonsense. and allow many companies to legally collude and pay similar rates Have you looked at any news about how horribly ineffective OPEC is? There are too many countries with too much capacity outside the cartel, countries in the cartel cheat on their quotas, ... . Cartels are not as effective as you think they are. For the individual, not having public salary works great because you really do have negotiating power. Say what? The companies already know how much they're paying everyone else. The only one who doesn't know is you. If my next company knows that all other companies in the industry are paying 20% less for my position, why would they pay me more? Because you can make a convincing argument that you're worth 20% more. I've never understood why smart people want to willingly give the more powerful in this world even more tools that will work against them. The powerful already have those tools. This is about giving those same tools to the less powerful as well.
- paulhauggis 12y ago
  "Say what? The companies already know how much they're paying everyone else. The only one who doesn't know is you." I'm talking about company A knowing all of the salaries of company B and C. Here is a link I found talking about Swedish salaries (2012): http://lostinstockholm.com/2012/01/10/average-salaries-in-sweden-by-occupation/ http://lostinstockholm.com/2012/01/10/average-salaries-in-sw... Most salaries for all occupations across the board are almost the same. I believe this is one of the results of public tax/salary information. "Because you can make a convincing argument that you're worth 20% more." Like I said, if everything is public, it won't matter. If I see that all of my competitors are paying 20% less (which won't be difficult to aggregate with everything public..a search engine for employers will popup in no time) I know that even if the potential employee goes somewhere else, they won't get a higher wage. Why would I pay them any more? On an Individual basis, I can also figure out exactly what you were paid at your last job (instead of guess work/relying on what you are asking). If you were paid $50K at your last job, why am I going to pay you $70K? "The powerful already have those tools. This is about giving those same tools to the less powerful as well." As an individual, privacy is a great tool to have at your disposal and is one of the only ways to defend against powerful companies taking advantage of you.

Udik 12y ago

I agree. When salaries are not public, there is just one factor that influences them, that is, the value that the company puts on that employee and the fear of losing him/ her to a better offer. On the other hand, it's much easier for the company to reject a request for a pay rise because it might upset other employees. Note, this mechanism only works downwards: the company will never give a pay rise to nine employees on the grounds that the tenth already has a higher salary.

tbrownaw 12y ago
Note, this mechanism only works downwards: the company will never give a pay rise to nine employees on the grounds that the tenth already has a higher salary. You assume the outlier will always be at the high end. What happens when instead of one person being paid much more than everyone else, it's one person that's paid much less than everyone else?

jacalata 12y ago

There's a little cognitive dissonance there. You think that public salary info would be bad for everyone, because companies would no longer be willing to pay them far above average. But that's ignoring the obvious fact that the majority of people are not making far above average, so they don't have that to lose. Some of them are even making below average, so they would gain.

tbrownaw 12y ago

a senior developer with 5 years of experience will be paid the same rate as a senior developer with 10 years because companies don't want unhappy employees and people with the same titles will be upset they are not paid the same rate Really? People are all too stupid to understand the value of experience or skill? Personal experience says this is nonsense. and allow many companies to legally collude and pay similar rates Have you looked at any news about how horribly ineffective OPEC is? There are too many countries with too much capacity outside the cartel, countries in the cartel cheat on their quotas, ... . Cartels are not as effective as you think they are. For the individual, not having public salary works great because you really do have negotiating power. Say what? The companies already know how much they're paying everyone else. The only one who doesn't know is you. If my next company knows that all other companies in the industry are paying 20% less for my position, why would they pay me more? Because you can make a convincing argument that you're worth 20% more. I've never understood why smart people want to willingly give the more powerful in this world even more tools that will work against them. The powerful already have those tools. This is about giving those same tools to the less powerful as well.

paulhauggis 12y ago
"Say what? The companies already know how much they're paying everyone else. The only one who doesn't know is you." I'm talking about company A knowing all of the salaries of company B and C. Here is a link I found talking about Swedish salaries (2012): http://lostinstockholm.com/2012/01/10/average-salaries-in-sweden-by-occupation/ http://lostinstockholm.com/2012/01/10/average-salaries-in-sw... Most salaries for all occupations across the board are almost the same. I believe this is one of the results of public tax/salary information. "Because you can make a convincing argument that you're worth 20% more." Like I said, if everything is public, it won't matter. If I see that all of my competitors are paying 20% less (which won't be difficult to aggregate with everything public..a search engine for employers will popup in no time) I know that even if the potential employee goes somewhere else, they won't get a higher wage. Why would I pay them any more? On an Individual basis, I can also figure out exactly what you were paid at your last job (instead of guess work/relying on what you are asking). If you were paid $50K at your last job, why am I going to pay you $70K? "The powerful already have those tools. This is about giving those same tools to the less powerful as well." As an individual, privacy is a great tool to have at your disposal and is one of the only ways to defend against powerful companies taking advantage of you.