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For its shortcomings, at least Muni has a level of accountability to the public that Lyft and Uber inherently lack. I can't see Lyft or Uber providing discounts

For its shortcomings, at least Muni has a level of accountability to the public that Lyft and Uber inherently lack. I can't see Lyft or Uber providing discounts to seniors or people with disabilities.

pbreit 12y ago
True in a political sense I suppose. But Lyft and Uber are far more accountable to actual users. And I'm nor sure I would equate accountability with offering arbitrary discounts to select groups.
- kbenson 12y ago
  I wouldn't call them arbitrary. As a society we've chosen to make the idea of helping the less able lead more normal lives something we want. Whether it really helps or is the most effective way is debatable, but I think it's pretty clear why; it's generally well supported and fits with our cultural mythos.
  - soup10 12y ago
    Also young people don't vote ;)
    - kbenson 12y ago
      Yes, I also thought of that as well. :) I didn't feel like exploring how that interrelates to other classes like the disabled in complex ways though[1], so omitted it. Edit: s/included that as well/thought of that as well/ 1: Do the disabled benefit from this association and the voting power of the elderly, and if so how much of our cultural wish to help the disabled is rationalization after the fact?
- eltondegeneres 12y ago
  I'm not that familiar with Lyft, but Uber doesn't doesn't seem accountable to actual users. Did they issue an apology for their "Rides of Glory" article where they mapped potential one night stands?
emmett 12y ago
It would be simple for the public to provide this support for seniors and people with disabilities on ride sharing services. Just create a monthly subsidy that can be used for the purpose of any public transit. It doesn't have to be used only on Muni. Problem solved! In fact, that seems like a great policy idea.
- jacalata 12y ago
  No, it seems like a terrible policy idea just like giving people food stamps instead of money - less utility to the recipients than straight up cash, high overhead for the program including the development of rules on what is an acceptable expense (can I just give all the subsidy to my mom for driving me around? What if she creates a 3-car competitor to Uber? What if she actually never drives me around?), will appeal greatly to people who worry that giving poor people money would be terrible because they will just spend it on drugs and Cadillacs, etc.
kansface 12y ago
Muni is theoretically accountable to city hall, not the people who ride it. It has no incentive to provide a useful service- only to keep its budget (which is a slush fund anyway).
avani 12y ago
Instead, they provide a reliable service. All the discounts in the world are useless when it's raining and the ramp is stuck, but "no worries, we'll send someone to you in 30 minutes." I have a lot of strong opinions about why Uber is a godsend for people with disabilities that still let them get into a car. It grates on me when people bring up "the disabled" in support of any sort of public transit, when my experience has always been that it may work, or be half assed, and the perspective of the agencies when you ask for change (like, say, design a bus such that everyone gets on the same way, or a train station that only uses elevators (with hidden away backup stairs) such that if they are broken people will care) is to be grateful to have been invited to the party at all.

pbreit 12y ago

True in a political sense I suppose. But Lyft and Uber are far more accountable to actual users. And I'm nor sure I would equate accountability with offering arbitrary discounts to select groups.

kbenson 12y ago
I wouldn't call them arbitrary. As a society we've chosen to make the idea of helping the less able lead more normal lives something we want. Whether it really helps or is the most effective way is debatable, but I think it's pretty clear why; it's generally well supported and fits with our cultural mythos.
- soup10 12y ago
  Also young people don't vote ;)
  - kbenson 12y ago
    Yes, I also thought of that as well. :) I didn't feel like exploring how that interrelates to other classes like the disabled in complex ways though[1], so omitted it. Edit: s/included that as well/thought of that as well/ 1: Do the disabled benefit from this association and the voting power of the elderly, and if so how much of our cultural wish to help the disabled is rationalization after the fact?
eltondegeneres 12y ago
I'm not that familiar with Lyft, but Uber doesn't doesn't seem accountable to actual users. Did they issue an apology for their "Rides of Glory" article where they mapped potential one night stands?

emmett 12y ago

It would be simple for the public to provide this support for seniors and people with disabilities on ride sharing services. Just create a monthly subsidy that can be used for the purpose of any public transit. It doesn't have to be used only on Muni. Problem solved! In fact, that seems like a great policy idea.

jacalata 12y ago
No, it seems like a terrible policy idea just like giving people food stamps instead of money - less utility to the recipients than straight up cash, high overhead for the program including the development of rules on what is an acceptable expense (can I just give all the subsidy to my mom for driving me around? What if she creates a 3-car competitor to Uber? What if she actually never drives me around?), will appeal greatly to people who worry that giving poor people money would be terrible because they will just spend it on drugs and Cadillacs, etc.

kansface 12y ago

Muni is theoretically accountable to city hall, not the people who ride it. It has no incentive to provide a useful service- only to keep its budget (which is a slush fund anyway).

avani 12y ago

Instead, they provide a reliable service. All the discounts in the world are useless when it's raining and the ramp is stuck, but "no worries, we'll send someone to you in 30 minutes." I have a lot of strong opinions about why Uber is a godsend for people with disabilities that still let them get into a car. It grates on me when people bring up "the disabled" in support of any sort of public transit, when my experience has always been that it may work, or be half assed, and the perspective of the agencies when you ask for change (like, say, design a bus such that everyone gets on the same way, or a train station that only uses elevators (with hidden away backup stairs) such that if they are broken people will care) is to be grateful to have been invited to the party at all.