6 ms·

There's no doubt in my mind that nostalgia is a permanent phenomenon. Spencer wrote The Faerie Queene in deliberately antique english to appeal to people's nost

There's no doubt in my mind that nostalgia is a permanent phenomenon. Spencer wrote The Faerie Queene in deliberately antique english to appeal to people's nostalgia. And that was more that 400 years ago. There's been a market for classic cars almost as long as there's been cars. How many businesses will carve out a niche in long tail tech is harder to tell. I expect it will be like many things, many enter, few leave.

slg 12y ago
Nostalgia might be a consistent phenomenon, but surely what we are nostalgia about changes. A 20 year old likely never experienced Windows 3.11 in the first place. That would likely make them view emulating it more of a novelty exercise than a nostalgic one, which anecdotally is a weaker and shorter lived motivator.
- RyanMcGreal 12y ago
  On the other hand, a 20-year-old probably didn't grow up with a record player but suddenly vinyl is in a huge renaissance.
  - lione 12y ago
    On the other other hand, Vinyl at least has some upsides. Listening to a Vinyl is an experience, plus it's lossless, and physically owning a record is cool/makes good art/conversation pieces. Windows3.11 would be interesting to check out, but it'd be more like something you'd check out for 20 minutes to see how it used to be done, then you'd go back to your modern OS. Vinyl is an experience, most older software is a novelty.
    - tedks 12y ago
      On the other other hand, Windows 3.1 has some upsides. Running Windows 3.1 is an experience, plus it's on DOS, and having a Windows 3.1 install on your laptop is cool/makes good art/conversations pieces. Vinyl would be interesting to listen to once or twice to show off to your friends, but it'd be more like something you'd set up once to see how it used to be done, then you'd go back to an iPod. Windows 3.1 is an experience, vinyl is a novelty.
      - jerf 12y ago
        I think the closest equivalent to the claim that vinyl is lossless would be that Windows 3.1 is efficient. Well... sure... if you squint hard enough and tune the definition of lossless/efficient properly, sure... but not in an actually relevant manner.
        tedks 12y ago
        Windows 3.1 is on DOS, so it is lossless. There's no intermediary between any program and any other program. Everything runs in pure, unadulterated Ring 0, raw, unprocessed 16 bits.
      - wuliwong 12y ago
        While you are obviously exceedingly clever, you're funny inversion is BS. Vinyl isn't a novelty. It is a small but non-negligible market. In my anecdotal experience, myself and my friends have had record players and have been listening to and buying records for years. The "market" for Windows 3.1 machines in 2015 is microscopic and completely negligible.
      - PhasmaFelis 12y ago
        It doesn't actually make any sense your way, though.
        tedks 12y ago
        That can be your opinion, but computer usage is a subjective experience and I'm entitled to my opinion as well. I find Windows 3.1 to be a superior computing experience; it has a charm and novelty about it that later Windows versions haven't been able to duplicate. I find the experience richer and more satisfying. Also, I like having to restart my computer and swap out physical floppy disks -- the tactile sensation and sound of disk access is much more pleasing than modern, silent, sterile SSDs.
        anonbanker 12y ago
        Your contributions to this thread have been my favorite moments in HN for the past two weeks. Thank you.
    - wuliwong 12y ago
      I would argue that the vinyl "revolution" is more about the actual qualities of the sound produced vs. digital media than simple nostalgia.
    - jff 12y ago
      > Listening to a Vinyl is an experience, plus it's lossless Nope, your record loses information every time you play it, because you're literally rubbing a needle over those tiny little grooves.
      - lione 12y ago
        Not lossless then. High quality? IDK. I thought there was something.
        GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        In terms of accuracy of reproduction, vinyl is just simply not going to do better than a CD. The audiophile community may disagree, but read some of their reviews and articles and you'll see how reliable their analyses are.
        luos 12y ago
        It is not even that, just some people like the "errors" in the playback. They say it makes it sound warmer.
    - cbd1984 12y ago
      > plus it's lossless Only if you define the vinyl copy to be the primary one, in which case vinyl is lossless by definition. However, if you take a live performance to be primary, vinyl is lossy because it has a reduced dynamic range compared to both live performances and digital technologies. http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl%29 http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl%29 http://www.npr.org/2012/02/10/146697658/why-vinyl-sounds-better-than-cd-or-not http://www.npr.org/2012/02/10/146697658/why-vinyl-sounds-bet... http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/the-future-of-music http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/the-future-of-mu...
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
      Vinyl is absolutely not lossless, there's the crackle and hiss, not to mention the fact that the needle digs into the surface as it's played.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - noobermin 12y ago
    As a 25 year old who did manage to experience Windows 3.1 (although I wasn't allowed on the Internet back then) but also once had turntable[0], I think it's far to say that "nostalgia" isn't really the word for it. I guess it's sort of like for gen-Xer's who like to swing dance, they find a certain quality in it although it certainly is much before their time. May be it is rather superficial, but you can say that about fashion, art, music, choice of programming paradigm (in some cases at least). [0]I should note the records I bought were recorded by people about my age, and they played psychedelic rock that emulated 60's rock and claimed to use "vintage" equipment from their effects pedals to their recording equipment...and they certainly weren't alive in the 60's.
  - beeworker 12y ago
    Huge may be an overstatement... http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/vinylunits.jpg?152cd9 http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/v...
- ANTSANTS 12y ago
  Ever been on a video game emulation forum? A lot of the users come across as about 10 years old. Windows 3.11 may not have the same appeal, but I bet you there are kids learning DOS today to play System Shock.

slg 12y ago

Nostalgia might be a consistent phenomenon, but surely what we are nostalgia about changes. A 20 year old likely never experienced Windows 3.11 in the first place. That would likely make them view emulating it more of a novelty exercise than a nostalgic one, which anecdotally is a weaker and shorter lived motivator.

RyanMcGreal 12y ago
On the other hand, a 20-year-old probably didn't grow up with a record player but suddenly vinyl is in a huge renaissance.
- lione 12y ago
  On the other other hand, Vinyl at least has some upsides. Listening to a Vinyl is an experience, plus it's lossless, and physically owning a record is cool/makes good art/conversation pieces. Windows3.11 would be interesting to check out, but it'd be more like something you'd check out for 20 minutes to see how it used to be done, then you'd go back to your modern OS. Vinyl is an experience, most older software is a novelty.
  - tedks 12y ago
    On the other other hand, Windows 3.1 has some upsides. Running Windows 3.1 is an experience, plus it's on DOS, and having a Windows 3.1 install on your laptop is cool/makes good art/conversations pieces. Vinyl would be interesting to listen to once or twice to show off to your friends, but it'd be more like something you'd set up once to see how it used to be done, then you'd go back to an iPod. Windows 3.1 is an experience, vinyl is a novelty.
    - jerf 12y ago
      I think the closest equivalent to the claim that vinyl is lossless would be that Windows 3.1 is efficient. Well... sure... if you squint hard enough and tune the definition of lossless/efficient properly, sure... but not in an actually relevant manner.
      - tedks 12y ago
        Windows 3.1 is on DOS, so it is lossless. There's no intermediary between any program and any other program. Everything runs in pure, unadulterated Ring 0, raw, unprocessed 16 bits.
    - wuliwong 12y ago
      While you are obviously exceedingly clever, you're funny inversion is BS. Vinyl isn't a novelty. It is a small but non-negligible market. In my anecdotal experience, myself and my friends have had record players and have been listening to and buying records for years. The "market" for Windows 3.1 machines in 2015 is microscopic and completely negligible.
    - PhasmaFelis 12y ago
      It doesn't actually make any sense your way, though.
      - tedks 12y ago
        That can be your opinion, but computer usage is a subjective experience and I'm entitled to my opinion as well. I find Windows 3.1 to be a superior computing experience; it has a charm and novelty about it that later Windows versions haven't been able to duplicate. I find the experience richer and more satisfying. Also, I like having to restart my computer and swap out physical floppy disks -- the tactile sensation and sound of disk access is much more pleasing than modern, silent, sterile SSDs.
        anonbanker 12y ago
        Your contributions to this thread have been my favorite moments in HN for the past two weeks. Thank you.
  - wuliwong 12y ago
    I would argue that the vinyl "revolution" is more about the actual qualities of the sound produced vs. digital media than simple nostalgia.
  - jff 12y ago
    > Listening to a Vinyl is an experience, plus it's lossless Nope, your record loses information every time you play it, because you're literally rubbing a needle over those tiny little grooves.
    - lione 12y ago
      Not lossless then. High quality? IDK. I thought there was something.
      - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        In terms of accuracy of reproduction, vinyl is just simply not going to do better than a CD. The audiophile community may disagree, but read some of their reviews and articles and you'll see how reliable their analyses are.
      - luos 12y ago
        It is not even that, just some people like the "errors" in the playback. They say it makes it sound warmer.
  - cbd1984 12y ago
    > plus it's lossless Only if you define the vinyl copy to be the primary one, in which case vinyl is lossless by definition. However, if you take a live performance to be primary, vinyl is lossy because it has a reduced dynamic range compared to both live performances and digital technologies. http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl%29 http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl%29 http://www.npr.org/2012/02/10/146697658/why-vinyl-sounds-better-than-cd-or-not http://www.npr.org/2012/02/10/146697658/why-vinyl-sounds-bet... http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/the-future-of-music http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/the-future-of-mu...
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    Vinyl is absolutely not lossless, there's the crackle and hiss, not to mention the fact that the needle digs into the surface as it's played.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- noobermin 12y ago
  As a 25 year old who did manage to experience Windows 3.1 (although I wasn't allowed on the Internet back then) but also once had turntable[0], I think it's far to say that "nostalgia" isn't really the word for it. I guess it's sort of like for gen-Xer's who like to swing dance, they find a certain quality in it although it certainly is much before their time. May be it is rather superficial, but you can say that about fashion, art, music, choice of programming paradigm (in some cases at least). [0]I should note the records I bought were recorded by people about my age, and they played psychedelic rock that emulated 60's rock and claimed to use "vintage" equipment from their effects pedals to their recording equipment...and they certainly weren't alive in the 60's.
- beeworker 12y ago
  Huge may be an overstatement... http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/vinylunits.jpg?152cd9 http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/v...
ANTSANTS 12y ago
Ever been on a video game emulation forum? A lot of the users come across as about 10 years old. Windows 3.11 may not have the same appeal, but I bet you there are kids learning DOS today to play System Shock.