6 ms·

Frankly, if I were in a place or doing activities where I thought a police raid was a significant possibility, I'd MUCH rather have something that would trigger

Frankly, if I were in a place or doing activities where I thought a police raid was a significant possibility, I'd MUCH rather have something that would trigger video AND AUDIO recording from multiple cameras in the house, placed in locations where they wouldn't be "accidentally" knocked over or otherwise destroyed and with the data going offsite immediately via any of several channels (e.g. home network, home wifi, neighbor wifi, public/semipublic wifi (e.g. "xfinitywifi"), LTE phone). Alternately, always have the recording going to something local, but trigger offsiting it with something like this and otherwise have a very limited timeframe for keeping it. The other VERY VERY important piece of this I suspect would be notices posted at every possible entrance to the house, something like "Video and audio recording occur on these premises. By entering, you consent to this recording and to the use and public disclosure of these recordings. If you do not consent to these recording, use and disclosure policies, please call (xxx) xxx-xxxx and schedule an appointment." Perhaps I should call this a kick-through license - I'm not sure it'd stand up, but I suspect you'd have a pretty decent chance of that. Of course, I'm boring, not inclined to activities likely to inspire either police interest or SWATing, and I live in a mostly-white townhouse community in the 'burbs. My most likely home invasion would be because "you are in a maze of twisty drives and townhouse units, all alike."

ryanmarsh 12y ago
It's probably my PTSD but my biggest fear is getting raided by SWAT in a "wrong house" mixup or for some other stupid reason. In such an instance I would likely kill one or more of them. I have a family in my house that could be injured by them in the process. I've always wanted a camera system that had remote encrypted storage so I could prove the truth in court. I just re-read this comment and I'm clearly nuts.
- bithush 12y ago
  If you live in a "no knock" state you are not nuts at all. I am from the UK and think the whole no knock thing is insane when everyone has easy access to guns (both legally and illegally). It is just asking for people to die.
  - ChuckMcM 12y ago
    Its for this reason I would seriously consider making my house 'no knock' safe if I were to build it from scratch. I worry about the conversation starting with "get down police!" rather than something more civil. And it seems you could design a house that would not easily be 'breached' which would mean any unplanned entry would take time and be noisy. Allowing you to start a dialog with the people trying to come in before anyone is in danger of being shot.
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      Living in a bunker gets old pretty quickly. No windows that can open either.
      - ryanmarsh 12y ago
        Windows aren't really the problem. Windows are dangerous to be near for the raiding party. To raid proof a dwelling you need things that slow down entry, things that trip, bright lights or sounds that let a raiding party know they've lost the element of surprise, and some form of early warning before someone has reached a breach point such as a door.
    - ryanmarsh 12y ago
      Were I to build a new house, yes, I've planned to do this. Jesus I sound nuttier by the minute.
      - robertfw 12y ago
        You're not insane; it's the society we live in that is insane!
    - digler990 12y ago
      > you could design a house that would not easily be 'breached' Most US homes have city and county building codes that regulate the number and height of windows, ostensibly for "fire rescue". Maybe you could evade this by buying a rural plot of land that is free of municipal code, but in that case you wouldn't need super security, just a long driveway with pressure sensors that alert you to anyone approaching.
- JonFish85 12y ago
  "In such an instance I would likely kill one or more of them" You may want to consider how to react differently in such a situation. That's definitely a fight you can't win, and indeed would probably lead to causing your loved ones more pain than it's worth. It's probably best to comply with order in the heat of the moment and later fight it in court. The outcome will be much, much better, I promise.
  - lhc- 12y ago
    I think the fear is less "f*ck the police" here, and more "an unknown entity is breaking into my house", which is a pretty justifiable response. If he knew it was the police, I don't think the first reaction would be to shoot them.
  - mynameisvlad 12y ago
    He's clearly thought about it, he's just saying that due to (I assume) his military background and PTSD, the most likely outcome would be that he kills one of them. It's very hard to not react in a particular way when it's what was ingrained as your method of survival in the field.
    - ryanmarsh 12y ago
      Training is forgotten with time. Life experiences seared into your lizard brain never go away. On that note The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg is a great book on the science of how this works.
      - fencepost 12y ago
        I'll second Scott's question about whether you've considered keeping your gun outside the house. Since you know that you react like that and are hopefully doing what you can to change that even if the VA is a mess, it seems to me that the responsible thing to do is also to preemptively mitigate the impact of those reactions, since you already know that your decision-making in the heat of the moment is going to be somewhat hard-wired in a bad direction by past experience. Hell, even just keeping the guns in a gun safe well away from the bedroom would make a big difference. You with a gun become a target, do anything you can to avoid being that target because dead men can't use the video evidence in court.
- Recoil42 12y ago
  Just curious, what is the root event (events?) of your PTSD?
  - ryanmarsh 12y ago
    IEDs, raids, ambushes
- c22 12y ago
  I somehow doubt proving your innocence will be your (or your surviving family's) primary concern if you kill one or more raiding swat members.
  - ryanmarsh 12y ago
    I meant in the event I survive.
- angersock 12y ago
  Had HPD stack up on an apartment I used to live at while I was gone...knocked once, roommate came out, and he managed to talk them out of raiding us. They really wanted the apartment down from us, which had been the alleged source of a bunch of burglaries in our complex. If the roommate had had headphones on (was a metalhead and a gamer), things could've gone differently. We would've at least been out a door. EDIT: Fun fact--if I remember correctly, the first (maybe only?) confirmed kill with a P90 was by HPD SWAT.
  - ryanmarsh 12y ago
    HPD and HCSD, there's a reason they call Harris County the "hangin' county". Someone at ACLU told me Harris County Sheriffs Dept. has more shooting deaths per violent arrest than any other police force in the country. Edit: "stack up" heh, fellow major league door kicker?
    - angersock 12y ago
      "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." EDIT: No vocational door-kicking experience. :|
  - sukilot 12y ago
    Wow. The cops raided the victim's home in a burglary investigation? Way to completely miss the point, cops.
- sukilot 12y ago
  You do not possess enough legal firepower, and probably don't have enough practice wih your equipment, to likely kill a member of a SWAT team and "hurt" yourself.
pakled_engineer 12y ago
Just hope the police can't remotely access your cameras and film you hacking the gibson :X I've yet to read of a raid where somebody successfully destroyed all forensic evidence off their systems instead they usually idle in chat rooms and wait for the suspect to write 'brb coffee' or kick down the door while they are passed out with everything powered on like Max Vision
mk4p 12y ago
It's crazy that the current environment is encouraging us to surveil ourselves.
CurtMonash 12y ago
Good post, but the real reason I upvoted was for the Zork reference. Well played!!!
- fencepost 12y ago
  I actually liked the "kick-through license" better, but thanks.

ryanmarsh 12y ago

It's probably my PTSD but my biggest fear is getting raided by SWAT in a "wrong house" mixup or for some other stupid reason. In such an instance I would likely kill one or more of them. I have a family in my house that could be injured by them in the process. I've always wanted a camera system that had remote encrypted storage so I could prove the truth in court. I just re-read this comment and I'm clearly nuts.

bithush 12y ago
If you live in a "no knock" state you are not nuts at all. I am from the UK and think the whole no knock thing is insane when everyone has easy access to guns (both legally and illegally). It is just asking for people to die.
- ChuckMcM 12y ago
  Its for this reason I would seriously consider making my house 'no knock' safe if I were to build it from scratch. I worry about the conversation starting with "get down police!" rather than something more civil. And it seems you could design a house that would not easily be 'breached' which would mean any unplanned entry would take time and be noisy. Allowing you to start a dialog with the people trying to come in before anyone is in danger of being shot.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    Living in a bunker gets old pretty quickly. No windows that can open either.
    - ryanmarsh 12y ago
      Windows aren't really the problem. Windows are dangerous to be near for the raiding party. To raid proof a dwelling you need things that slow down entry, things that trip, bright lights or sounds that let a raiding party know they've lost the element of surprise, and some form of early warning before someone has reached a breach point such as a door.
  - ryanmarsh 12y ago
    Were I to build a new house, yes, I've planned to do this. Jesus I sound nuttier by the minute.
    - robertfw 12y ago
      You're not insane; it's the society we live in that is insane!
  - digler990 12y ago
    > you could design a house that would not easily be 'breached' Most US homes have city and county building codes that regulate the number and height of windows, ostensibly for "fire rescue". Maybe you could evade this by buying a rural plot of land that is free of municipal code, but in that case you wouldn't need super security, just a long driveway with pressure sensors that alert you to anyone approaching.
JonFish85 12y ago
"In such an instance I would likely kill one or more of them" You may want to consider how to react differently in such a situation. That's definitely a fight you can't win, and indeed would probably lead to causing your loved ones more pain than it's worth. It's probably best to comply with order in the heat of the moment and later fight it in court. The outcome will be much, much better, I promise.
- lhc- 12y ago
  I think the fear is less "f*ck the police" here, and more "an unknown entity is breaking into my house", which is a pretty justifiable response. If he knew it was the police, I don't think the first reaction would be to shoot them.
- mynameisvlad 12y ago
  He's clearly thought about it, he's just saying that due to (I assume) his military background and PTSD, the most likely outcome would be that he kills one of them. It's very hard to not react in a particular way when it's what was ingrained as your method of survival in the field.
  - ryanmarsh 12y ago
    Training is forgotten with time. Life experiences seared into your lizard brain never go away. On that note The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg is a great book on the science of how this works.
    - fencepost 12y ago
      I'll second Scott's question about whether you've considered keeping your gun outside the house. Since you know that you react like that and are hopefully doing what you can to change that even if the VA is a mess, it seems to me that the responsible thing to do is also to preemptively mitigate the impact of those reactions, since you already know that your decision-making in the heat of the moment is going to be somewhat hard-wired in a bad direction by past experience. Hell, even just keeping the guns in a gun safe well away from the bedroom would make a big difference. You with a gun become a target, do anything you can to avoid being that target because dead men can't use the video evidence in court.
Recoil42 12y ago
Just curious, what is the root event (events?) of your PTSD?
- ryanmarsh 12y ago
  IEDs, raids, ambushes
c22 12y ago
I somehow doubt proving your innocence will be your (or your surviving family's) primary concern if you kill one or more raiding swat members.
- ryanmarsh 12y ago
  I meant in the event I survive.
angersock 12y ago
Had HPD stack up on an apartment I used to live at while I was gone...knocked once, roommate came out, and he managed to talk them out of raiding us. They really wanted the apartment down from us, which had been the alleged source of a bunch of burglaries in our complex. If the roommate had had headphones on (was a metalhead and a gamer), things could've gone differently. We would've at least been out a door. EDIT: Fun fact--if I remember correctly, the first (maybe only?) confirmed kill with a P90 was by HPD SWAT.
- ryanmarsh 12y ago
  HPD and HCSD, there's a reason they call Harris County the "hangin' county". Someone at ACLU told me Harris County Sheriffs Dept. has more shooting deaths per violent arrest than any other police force in the country. Edit: "stack up" heh, fellow major league door kicker?
  - angersock 12y ago
    "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." EDIT: No vocational door-kicking experience. :|
- sukilot 12y ago
  Wow. The cops raided the victim's home in a burglary investigation? Way to completely miss the point, cops.
sukilot 12y ago
You do not possess enough legal firepower, and probably don't have enough practice wih your equipment, to likely kill a member of a SWAT team and "hurt" yourself.

pakled_engineer 12y ago

Just hope the police can't remotely access your cameras and film you hacking the gibson :X I've yet to read of a raid where somebody successfully destroyed all forensic evidence off their systems instead they usually idle in chat rooms and wait for the suspect to write 'brb coffee' or kick down the door while they are passed out with everything powered on like Max Vision

mk4p 12y ago

It's crazy that the current environment is encouraging us to surveil ourselves.

CurtMonash 12y ago

Good post, but the real reason I upvoted was for the Zork reference. Well played!!!

fencepost 12y ago
I actually liked the "kick-through license" better, but thanks.