7 ms·

Don't you see any problem with the silence in terms of safety? There is a reason bicycles need to have a bell. Because these you also cannot hear when they app

by yaeger 12y ago

Don't you see any problem with the silence in terms of safety? There is a reason bicycles need to have a bell. Because these you also cannot hear when they approach you. Although, it would be funny seeing a Tesla with a nice little bell and the tacked on law that you have to use it to alarm others in front of you that you are approaching. That'll be a sight to behold.

Svip 12y ago
I was once almost hit by a Tesla, because I didn't hear it coming. Fortunately, the driver noticed I wasn't aware of his presence and slowed down.
- CalRobert 12y ago
  With a sane legal framework surrounding driving, the driver would need to be sure they were not going to hit you, rather than you needing to be sure you wouldn't be hit.
  - firethief 12y ago
    For a pedestrian hit by a car, legal liability is often not the main concern.
    - jeza 12y ago
      Though in some countries, hitting a pedestrian gets the driver an automatic jail term. Collisions with pedestrians don't happen all that often in such countries.
      - troels 12y ago
        I'd still rather be the driver in that scenario (Which I believe was the parent's point)
        jeza 12y ago
        I think I'd rather be neither.
      - droopyEyelids 12y ago
        I agree and I find that a far more civilized legal approach to cars, but I don't ever count on that happening in America.
    - iamthepieman 12y ago
      You may legally in the right but only your heirs will care.
    - mikeash 12y ago
      It's not the main concern for the pedestrian, but it may be for the driver. If legal liability is clearly on the driver then drivers will be more careful. At least, many will, even if not all.
  - allendoerfer 12y ago
    In the end it does not matter. The pedestrian is the one needing the wheelchair afterwards.
    - rprospero 12y ago
      On the one hand, you're right. On the other hand, a friend of mine was sued by the driver of the car that hit him to pay for cleaning his blood off of the car and fixing the dent his body left in the frame. It'd be nice if they didn't add insult to injury.
      - allendoerfer 12y ago
        In Germany it is generally the other way round, especially when children are involved. The driver of a car has to take care of pedestrians and cyclists. Even if a driver follows the rules perfectly fine, § 1.1 of the law (you have to take care of others) always beats the rest.
        CalRobert 12y ago
        Interestingly, Germany is also the most wonderful place I know for a drive. They're well-trained, considerate, and skilled.
        allendoerfer 12y ago
        You get what you (let people) pay for. A drivers license costs ~1500€ here.
      - Htsthbjig 12y ago
        Well if your friend is the one responsible from the accident, then yes, he should be paying the car damages. Sometimes it is pedestrian fault. I was nearly run over by a truck crossing the street trying not to miss a bus that took so long waiting. It was entirely my fault had he killed me. Luckily I had good reflexes and jumped away, the truck hit my leg at over 100kms/hour while in the air and only made me a small bruise as it rotated in the air with little resistance.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - ctdonath 12y ago
      Legendary radio exchange: "I am the captain of battleship USS Awesomename! I demand you change your course!" "I am the keeper of a lighthouse. Your call."
na85 12y ago
Cars come equipped with horns for that exact purpose (alerting pedestrians, etc.), though they are often used as displeasure-signalling devices.
- pcthrowaway 12y ago
  As a cyclist it's often helpful to be able to hear the sound made by cars moving across a street, for example, when approaching an intersection where perpendicular traffic should stop, but may not.
  - ncza 12y ago
    As a casual slow cyclist myself I already find it impossible to rely on audio too Mich, visuals are always needed. I have had several near collisions with other cyclists in the past who silently sneak up from behind or around corners. Afterwards I made sure to always look around before changing direction and treat every obscured corner as potential "devil puppet on a spring box" (no idea what they are called :) ). I would love car traffic to be more silent but AFAIK the tires actually make most of the noise.
    - nitrogen 12y ago
      "devil puppet on a spring box" (no idea what they are called :) ). I believe this is what you mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-in-the-box https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-in-the-box
    - pcthrowaway 12y ago
      You're entirely right that we shouldn't rely on sensory input from our ears to drive or cycle. However, the fact of the matter is that many people use their hearing to supplement their other senses. When I worked with deaf people as relay operator, a question asked by a coworker during our orientation session on deaf culture was 'How do deaf people drive if they can't hear sirens from emergency vehicles?' The answer is that they rely on their other input to and have learned to compensate for their lack of hearing. In effect they may be aware of these possibilities and check their rearviews more frequently to account for not being able to depend on auditory updates. If all vehicles were completely silent, it would remove the benefit those of us with hearing gain from the additional input, even though this input isn't strictly speaking necessary. We could and would adapt, sure, but I think that additional factor when cycling does help in some situations. I can see engines making some noise to be advantageous, even if it only makes the difference of one fatality a year, because there is very little drawback.
jarek 12y ago
At city speeds, tire noise exceeds engine noise in many internal-combustion vehicles as well.
- ptaipale 12y ago
  At highway speeds it definitely does, but not necessarily at city speeds as the speed is low (and a stationary car makes no tyre noise but combustion engine still makes some engine noise). This of course also depends on the road surface and tyres. Where I live we have rough asphalt (with large granite chips sticking out) and rought tyres, at least in the winter. The highway noise is practically all from tyres.
  - jarek 12y ago
    > but not necessarily at city speeds as the speed is low No, but often enough for it to be a factor. As a pedestrian I don't assume I can hear an engine. > (and a stationary car makes no tyre noise but combustion engine still makes some engine noise) Unless you have a start-and-stop, and it's approaching insanity to require that stopped petrol cars have speakers that make engine noise if they turn off the engine.
mabbo 12y ago
You know, deaf people have managed to survive by looking around before they step onto the road. Anyone who thinks we need cars to make loud noises just so that everyone can feel safer, I will personally make sure to blare my horn as loudly as possible as I drive past their house at 2 am.
- Recoil42 12y ago
  >You know, deaf people have managed to survive by looking around before they step onto the road. And what about blind people?
- elektronjunge 12y ago
  That's a great solution if your not blind. Or navigating somewhere with poor sight lines like a parking garage.
aaronetz 12y ago
In a hypothetical future where all city vehicles are electric, tire noise would be much more noticeable (whereas now it is drowning in engine noise).
vilhelm_s 12y ago
I mean, cyclists are not required by law to continuously ring the bell when traveling at less than 25mph though. Cars have car horns; that seems like a better analogy to bicycle bells than the "external noise generators".
MarkMc 12y ago
I'm sure it won't be long until Google's self-driving car automatically sounds the horn when it detects an imminent collision with a pedestrian or car.

by yaeger 12y ago

Svip 12y ago

I was once almost hit by a Tesla, because I didn't hear it coming. Fortunately, the driver noticed I wasn't aware of his presence and slowed down.

CalRobert 12y ago
With a sane legal framework surrounding driving, the driver would need to be sure they were not going to hit you, rather than you needing to be sure you wouldn't be hit.
- firethief 12y ago
  For a pedestrian hit by a car, legal liability is often not the main concern.
  - jeza 12y ago
    Though in some countries, hitting a pedestrian gets the driver an automatic jail term. Collisions with pedestrians don't happen all that often in such countries.
    - troels 12y ago
      I'd still rather be the driver in that scenario (Which I believe was the parent's point)
      - jeza 12y ago
        I think I'd rather be neither.
    - droopyEyelids 12y ago
      I agree and I find that a far more civilized legal approach to cars, but I don't ever count on that happening in America.
  - iamthepieman 12y ago
    You may legally in the right but only your heirs will care.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    It's not the main concern for the pedestrian, but it may be for the driver. If legal liability is clearly on the driver then drivers will be more careful. At least, many will, even if not all.
- allendoerfer 12y ago
  In the end it does not matter. The pedestrian is the one needing the wheelchair afterwards.
  - rprospero 12y ago
    On the one hand, you're right. On the other hand, a friend of mine was sued by the driver of the car that hit him to pay for cleaning his blood off of the car and fixing the dent his body left in the frame. It'd be nice if they didn't add insult to injury.
    - allendoerfer 12y ago
      In Germany it is generally the other way round, especially when children are involved. The driver of a car has to take care of pedestrians and cyclists. Even if a driver follows the rules perfectly fine, § 1.1 of the law (you have to take care of others) always beats the rest.
      - CalRobert 12y ago
        Interestingly, Germany is also the most wonderful place I know for a drive. They're well-trained, considerate, and skilled.
        allendoerfer 12y ago
        You get what you (let people) pay for. A drivers license costs ~1500€ here.
    - Htsthbjig 12y ago
      Well if your friend is the one responsible from the accident, then yes, he should be paying the car damages. Sometimes it is pedestrian fault. I was nearly run over by a truck crossing the street trying not to miss a bus that took so long waiting. It was entirely my fault had he killed me. Luckily I had good reflexes and jumped away, the truck hit my leg at over 100kms/hour while in the air and only made me a small bruise as it rotated in the air with little resistance.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - ctdonath 12y ago
    Legendary radio exchange: "I am the captain of battleship USS Awesomename! I demand you change your course!" "I am the keeper of a lighthouse. Your call."

na85 12y ago

Cars come equipped with horns for that exact purpose (alerting pedestrians, etc.), though they are often used as displeasure-signalling devices.

pcthrowaway 12y ago
As a cyclist it's often helpful to be able to hear the sound made by cars moving across a street, for example, when approaching an intersection where perpendicular traffic should stop, but may not.
- ncza 12y ago
  As a casual slow cyclist myself I already find it impossible to rely on audio too Mich, visuals are always needed. I have had several near collisions with other cyclists in the past who silently sneak up from behind or around corners. Afterwards I made sure to always look around before changing direction and treat every obscured corner as potential "devil puppet on a spring box" (no idea what they are called :) ). I would love car traffic to be more silent but AFAIK the tires actually make most of the noise.
  - nitrogen 12y ago
    "devil puppet on a spring box" (no idea what they are called :) ). I believe this is what you mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-in-the-box https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-in-the-box
  - pcthrowaway 12y ago
    You're entirely right that we shouldn't rely on sensory input from our ears to drive or cycle. However, the fact of the matter is that many people use their hearing to supplement their other senses. When I worked with deaf people as relay operator, a question asked by a coworker during our orientation session on deaf culture was 'How do deaf people drive if they can't hear sirens from emergency vehicles?' The answer is that they rely on their other input to and have learned to compensate for their lack of hearing. In effect they may be aware of these possibilities and check their rearviews more frequently to account for not being able to depend on auditory updates. If all vehicles were completely silent, it would remove the benefit those of us with hearing gain from the additional input, even though this input isn't strictly speaking necessary. We could and would adapt, sure, but I think that additional factor when cycling does help in some situations. I can see engines making some noise to be advantageous, even if it only makes the difference of one fatality a year, because there is very little drawback.

jarek 12y ago

At city speeds, tire noise exceeds engine noise in many internal-combustion vehicles as well.

ptaipale 12y ago
At highway speeds it definitely does, but not necessarily at city speeds as the speed is low (and a stationary car makes no tyre noise but combustion engine still makes some engine noise). This of course also depends on the road surface and tyres. Where I live we have rough asphalt (with large granite chips sticking out) and rought tyres, at least in the winter. The highway noise is practically all from tyres.
- jarek 12y ago
  > but not necessarily at city speeds as the speed is low No, but often enough for it to be a factor. As a pedestrian I don't assume I can hear an engine. > (and a stationary car makes no tyre noise but combustion engine still makes some engine noise) Unless you have a start-and-stop, and it's approaching insanity to require that stopped petrol cars have speakers that make engine noise if they turn off the engine.

mabbo 12y ago

You know, deaf people have managed to survive by looking around before they step onto the road. Anyone who thinks we need cars to make loud noises just so that everyone can feel safer, I will personally make sure to blare my horn as loudly as possible as I drive past their house at 2 am.

Recoil42 12y ago
>You know, deaf people have managed to survive by looking around before they step onto the road. And what about blind people?
elektronjunge 12y ago
That's a great solution if your not blind. Or navigating somewhere with poor sight lines like a parking garage.

aaronetz 12y ago

In a hypothetical future where all city vehicles are electric, tire noise would be much more noticeable (whereas now it is drowning in engine noise).

vilhelm_s 12y ago

I mean, cyclists are not required by law to continuously ring the bell when traveling at less than 25mph though. Cars have car horns; that seems like a better analogy to bicycle bells than the "external noise generators".

MarkMc 12y ago

I'm sure it won't be long until Google's self-driving car automatically sounds the horn when it detects an imminent collision with a pedestrian or car.