4 ms·

I think that's (A) a larger cultural thing, and (B) an over-generalization. Is it really that hard to see how that can all be averted? Especially if you're in a

by lzimm 17y ago

I think that's (A) a larger cultural thing, and (B) an over-generalization. Is it really that hard to see how that can all be averted? Especially if you're in a society that, like I mentioned somewhere before, takes a much more willing approach to education?

Mz 17y ago
I don't know enough about the culture you are speaking of to have any idea. But I know that's largely how it seems to work here. And, decades later, no matter how hard I work at the social stuff, I routinely run into crapola from other people who are just waiting to pounce on the chance to blame me (or some other bright person) for something going wrong in their life. If I share helpful tips at work, it gets interpreted as me "bragging" rather than trying to help. And I have repeatedly been in educational settings, both related to my job and in college settings, where the instructor was all too willing to hold me up as an "example" in the worst possible way for me personally and to blame me as the reason they couldn't curve the grade more. In one case, I quietly pulled my professor aside and asked her to not crow about me making 107 on the test while everyone is groaning about their own score as all it does it cause huge social backlash for me. On a later test, she threw out my score as an outlier when curving the grade. When the entire class pointed (accusingly) to me as obviously the person who got the 94 that she geared the test to, she and I were both able to say honestly "nope". In another instance (different class, different instructor), I was able to point out that two of the questions on the test either had never been covered in class or were unanswerable because of the way they were structured. Yet in both cases, the entire class was quick to be angry with or blaming towards me rather than the professor for how the grading system worked. Why? Because they have been told that since they were five years old: 'Don't blame me. I would love to curve the grade more but I can't because of Mr./Ms. Smartypants over there." So I think there are huge inherent problems in making students responsible for the outcomes of other students in the class while adults not only shirk their own responsibilities but scapegoat one of their students. On the other hand, I find that fostering an environment where everyone's contribution is genuinely valued and all individuals are genuinely treated with respect can help create a vigorous environment of open intellectual exchange that helps raise the bar for all involved, in part by setting aside pecking order, chest-beating and other ills of typical social interactions. Perhaps that is akin to what the classes in Finland are achieving. That is something I know works well for all members of a group, regardless of individual IQ, educational background, etc.
- lzimm 17y ago
  I got that all the time in first year too. Except I turned foe into friend and it all worked out. Plus the problem largely evaporated by the time I got to higher level classes, where people were already used to shit like that happening. Needless to say, they were also from a bit higher sample of the population in the first place: selection bias.
  - Mz 17y ago
    I'd love to discuss this further, but I've had a rough day. I need to just drop the conversation at this point. Good talking with you.

by lzimm 17y ago

Mz 17y ago

I don't know enough about the culture you are speaking of to have any idea. But I know that's largely how it seems to work here. And, decades later, no matter how hard I work at the social stuff, I routinely run into crapola from other people who are just waiting to pounce on the chance to blame me (or some other bright person) for something going wrong in their life. If I share helpful tips at work, it gets interpreted as me "bragging" rather than trying to help. And I have repeatedly been in educational settings, both related to my job and in college settings, where the instructor was all too willing to hold me up as an "example" in the worst possible way for me personally and to blame me as the reason they couldn't curve the grade more. In one case, I quietly pulled my professor aside and asked her to not crow about me making 107 on the test while everyone is groaning about their own score as all it does it cause huge social backlash for me. On a later test, she threw out my score as an outlier when curving the grade. When the entire class pointed (accusingly) to me as obviously the person who got the 94 that she geared the test to, she and I were both able to say honestly "nope". In another instance (different class, different instructor), I was able to point out that two of the questions on the test either had never been covered in class or were unanswerable because of the way they were structured. Yet in both cases, the entire class was quick to be angry with or blaming towards me rather than the professor for how the grading system worked. Why? Because they have been told that since they were five years old: 'Don't blame me. I would love to curve the grade more but I can't because of Mr./Ms. Smartypants over there." So I think there are huge inherent problems in making students responsible for the outcomes of other students in the class while adults not only shirk their own responsibilities but scapegoat one of their students. On the other hand, I find that fostering an environment where everyone's contribution is genuinely valued and all individuals are genuinely treated with respect can help create a vigorous environment of open intellectual exchange that helps raise the bar for all involved, in part by setting aside pecking order, chest-beating and other ills of typical social interactions. Perhaps that is akin to what the classes in Finland are achieving. That is something I know works well for all members of a group, regardless of individual IQ, educational background, etc.

lzimm 17y ago
I got that all the time in first year too. Except I turned foe into friend and it all worked out. Plus the problem largely evaporated by the time I got to higher level classes, where people were already used to shit like that happening. Needless to say, they were also from a bit higher sample of the population in the first place: selection bias.
- Mz 17y ago
  I'd love to discuss this further, but I've had a rough day. I need to just drop the conversation at this point. Good talking with you.