3 ms·

How much does it cost to found a Microsoft-based startup?

12 points by drm237 19y ago

downer 19y ago
> I envy the LAMP guys, not because of the technology which I think is slightly behind Microsft's [sic] (VS + C# + .NET) Ruby and Python and Lisp and all their frameworks and PostGres just aren't the same as those cutting-edge Microsoft products.
- michaelneale 19y ago
  Now thats sarcasm !
- jawngee 19y ago
  I wish I could mod up more than once.
gscott 19y ago
The authors numbers are a little rich. If you have that much money to blow maybe you just go to Amazon and buy everything. Here are some numbers that are more realistic. > 1 Server running Windows Small Business Server 2003 for Email, SharePoint, Domain Controller, etc. Use a workgroup instead of a domain. Host your email on GoDaddy for $5 or $10 a month instead of running your own mail server. > 1 Server running W2K3 Server as the front-end for the web-based app. $149 on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/MICROSOFT-WINDOWS-SERVER-2003-USER/dp/B00009ETLG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_10?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1197580799&sr=8-10 http://www.amazon.com/MICROSOFT-WINDOWS-SERVER-2003-USER/dp/... > 1 Server running W2K3 + SQL 2005 as the backend $795 Get rid of the extras on the cd you just need Windows and SQL Server http://cgi.ebay.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-2003-Premium-SQL-2000_W0QQitemZ300181250399QQihZ020QQcategoryZ80360QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-2003-Premi... > 2 Desktop machines for Development, with VS 2005 Pro, Office 2007, Windows XP Buy $400 computers and use Open Office. Dell sent me an email today for a $400 computer with LCD Monitor, I deleted it but it might have come with office not sure use Open Office instead. Visual Studio 2 x 137.95 http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Visual-Studio-2005-Professional-Retail-NEW_W0QQitemZ260192976626QQihZ016QQcategoryZ80300QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Visual-Studio-2005-Professiona... > 1 Laptop for the business guy, with Office 2007 + XP $598. Use Open Office or look for a laptop that is a little more expensive that comes with office http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7757623 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7757623 ------------ Totals $400 Developer Computer $400 Developer Computer $598 Laptop $795 Windows + SQL Server $149 Windows 2003 Server $275 VS Studio x 2 (137.95 each) -------------- $2,614.00 excluding shipping Personally I use Windows Server 2000, SQL Server 2000, and a free tag editor so I have not paid even close to this in software. But if you want to be legitimate then I would estimate less then $3,000 for everything you need.
- rms 19y ago
  >But if you want to be legitimate I presume a post-launch startup would have to be crazy to not license their Microsoft servers. Or does Microsoft never enforce its licenses against startups?
  - nickb 19y ago
    Of course they do and yes, you'd have to be crazy not to use licensed software since you couldn't upgrade your software very easily and you'd be exposed to every security hole that someone discovers.
  - rams 19y ago
    Till recently I was working for a startup, that used evaluation copies of various Microsoft operating systems, especially Windows 2003 Server - the evaluation period is 60 days for w2k03 server, iirc.
sadiq 19y ago
Everyone seems to be counting the initial cost in monetary terms. What's the overall cost of pinning your company's technology to a single supplier? With a FOSS-based solution (like LAMP/Ruby/etc..) you know you'll always have access to the tools required. The same really can't be said for an MS-stack (especially with products constantly being added and removed, and support expiring for old ones).
- DarrenStuart 19y ago
  You are never going to lose the tools to develop stuff. MS still supports asp classic on the lastest build of iis etc The thing with the MS stack is it improves every single release and gets stronger at a better pace. I am a developer that makes my living using MS tech to build sites and they make my life easier with each update to their platform. You are never tied to a platform in these days, if you decide that you want to change platform then you hire the talent and change.
  - sadiq 19y ago
    "You are never tied to a platform in these days, if you decide that you want to change platform then you hire the talent and change." Surely that's a cost though? Not necessarily a minor for one for a startup.
    - DarrenStuart 19y ago
      yeah very true, but I would hope that this would not be at startup stage but serveral years down the line when you can afford it.
idea 19y ago
The biggest problem with Microsoft software is imo not the price, but the complicated licensing structure of their software. When reading pages on microsoft.com about licensing you will get a headache if you're not an accountant. With Linux you can simply deploy another server if you need one, without thinking about all those licensing programs and restrictions. A related question that i have is: would a startup be less attractive for potential buyers like Google and Yahoo if it uses Microsoft technologies?
- cellis 19y ago
  orkut.
  - nailer 19y ago
    Why are you moderated up? Google never brought Orkut, Orkut was an internal project.
- hello_moto 19y ago
  Writely
nickb 19y ago
Imagine if every one of your VPSes or servers used Windows... you'd have to pay MS for every virtual machine that you add to your setup and if you used SQL Server, you'd have to pay for replication servers as well. To run a site that gets 100K uniques a month, you'd need $4K+ worth of software just to keep growing.
- drm237 19y ago
  I think that MySpace proves that going the MS route can be viable. PlentyOfFish.com seems to be doing pretty well also. I agree with 'idea' that the price isn't the issue, the complicated licensing structure is the administrative nightmare. I used to do all MS at the company I did IT for, but now that I'm on my own I concentrate on LAMP. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
  - nickb 19y ago
    First of all, MySpace is not a startup and they have plenty of money to burn. They chose MS for many reasons, including the fact that they can hire a ton of people who know the platform. MS also did a lot of custom engineering on SQL Server to help them scale. If you read that giant article from CIO mag you'll see that this was one of the biggest plusses. If you're rich & have plenty of cash on hand, you don't have to worry about the cost. But if you're a startup, cashflow is everything.
    - deleted 19y ago
      [deleted]
DarrenStuart 19y ago
Its cheaper to become a microsoft partner which is free and then get the software action pack for about 400 dollars. This will give a small startup team all the ms software they will need to get the product made. They also send you a disc 4 times a year with the latest software and updates. It even includes office, vs, all the new silverlight tools etc.
- drm237 19y ago
  True, but I don't think you can use the action pack software in a production environment. It's more like MSDN software; for internal use in development/testing scenarios. Even still, it's a great deal and is highly recommended if you run any MS software in your shop.
  - DarrenStuart 19y ago
    yep your right, you can't use it for hosting your app but you can use it to develop it. The example they use is you can use it to run your own interanet but not a clients. Cheaper than an MSDN sup as well.
kogir 19y ago
With the Service Provider License Agreement, which most web startups fall under, you pay per month for what you use. Machines kept as backups cost you nothing. The monthly fees are quite reasonable and make the software cost inconsequential relative to hardware and people. You also always get to use the latest version of everything. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to divulge exact pricing details, but the whole bundle of software mentioned in article would only cost $330 per month assuming reasonable hardware. Learn more at: http://www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/licensing/default.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/licensing/default....
nailer 19y ago
Add clustering - the so called 'server' platform still requires the entire OS to be restarted for non-kernel updates, so staying both secure and and available requires a second server.
mynameishere 19y ago
$7,775 according to Amazon.com's price. Wow. One month's salary and benefits. It's not inconceivable that Microsoft's products would save that much or more labor. I use linux because I'm cheap.

12 points by drm237 19y ago

> I envy the LAMP guys, not because of the technology which I think is slightly behind Microsft's [sic] (VS + C# + .NET) Ruby and Python and Lisp and all their frameworks and PostGres just aren't the same as those cutting-edge Microsoft products.

michaelneale 19y ago
Now thats sarcasm !
jawngee 19y ago
I wish I could mod up more than once.

gscott 19y ago

The authors numbers are a little rich. If you have that much money to blow maybe you just go to Amazon and buy everything. Here are some numbers that are more realistic. > 1 Server running Windows Small Business Server 2003 for Email, SharePoint, Domain Controller, etc. Use a workgroup instead of a domain. Host your email on GoDaddy for $5 or $10 a month instead of running your own mail server. > 1 Server running W2K3 Server as the front-end for the web-based app. $149 on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/MICROSOFT-WINDOWS-SERVER-2003-USER/dp/B00009ETLG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_10?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1197580799&sr=8-10 http://www.amazon.com/MICROSOFT-WINDOWS-SERVER-2003-USER/dp/... > 1 Server running W2K3 + SQL 2005 as the backend $795 Get rid of the extras on the cd you just need Windows and SQL Server http://cgi.ebay.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-2003-Premium-SQL-2000_W0QQitemZ300181250399QQihZ020QQcategoryZ80360QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-2003-Premi... > 2 Desktop machines for Development, with VS 2005 Pro, Office 2007, Windows XP Buy $400 computers and use Open Office. Dell sent me an email today for a $400 computer with LCD Monitor, I deleted it but it might have come with office not sure use Open Office instead. Visual Studio 2 x 137.95 http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Visual-Studio-2005-Professional-Retail-NEW_W0QQitemZ260192976626QQihZ016QQcategoryZ80300QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Visual-Studio-2005-Professiona... > 1 Laptop for the business guy, with Office 2007 + XP $598. Use Open Office or look for a laptop that is a little more expensive that comes with office http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7757623 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7757623 ------------ Totals $400 Developer Computer $400 Developer Computer $598 Laptop $795 Windows + SQL Server $149 Windows 2003 Server $275 VS Studio x 2 (137.95 each) -------------- $2,614.00 excluding shipping Personally I use Windows Server 2000, SQL Server 2000, and a free tag editor so I have not paid even close to this in software. But if you want to be legitimate then I would estimate less then $3,000 for everything you need.

rms 19y ago
>But if you want to be legitimate I presume a post-launch startup would have to be crazy to not license their Microsoft servers. Or does Microsoft never enforce its licenses against startups?
- nickb 19y ago
  Of course they do and yes, you'd have to be crazy not to use licensed software since you couldn't upgrade your software very easily and you'd be exposed to every security hole that someone discovers.
- rams 19y ago
  Till recently I was working for a startup, that used evaluation copies of various Microsoft operating systems, especially Windows 2003 Server - the evaluation period is 60 days for w2k03 server, iirc.

sadiq 19y ago

Everyone seems to be counting the initial cost in monetary terms. What's the overall cost of pinning your company's technology to a single supplier? With a FOSS-based solution (like LAMP/Ruby/etc..) you know you'll always have access to the tools required. The same really can't be said for an MS-stack (especially with products constantly being added and removed, and support expiring for old ones).

DarrenStuart 19y ago
You are never going to lose the tools to develop stuff. MS still supports asp classic on the lastest build of iis etc The thing with the MS stack is it improves every single release and gets stronger at a better pace. I am a developer that makes my living using MS tech to build sites and they make my life easier with each update to their platform. You are never tied to a platform in these days, if you decide that you want to change platform then you hire the talent and change.
- sadiq 19y ago
  "You are never tied to a platform in these days, if you decide that you want to change platform then you hire the talent and change." Surely that's a cost though? Not necessarily a minor for one for a startup.
  - DarrenStuart 19y ago
    yeah very true, but I would hope that this would not be at startup stage but serveral years down the line when you can afford it.

idea 19y ago

The biggest problem with Microsoft software is imo not the price, but the complicated licensing structure of their software. When reading pages on microsoft.com about licensing you will get a headache if you're not an accountant. With Linux you can simply deploy another server if you need one, without thinking about all those licensing programs and restrictions. A related question that i have is: would a startup be less attractive for potential buyers like Google and Yahoo if it uses Microsoft technologies?

cellis 19y ago
orkut.
- nailer 19y ago
  Why are you moderated up? Google never brought Orkut, Orkut was an internal project.
hello_moto 19y ago
Writely

nickb 19y ago

Imagine if every one of your VPSes or servers used Windows... you'd have to pay MS for every virtual machine that you add to your setup and if you used SQL Server, you'd have to pay for replication servers as well. To run a site that gets 100K uniques a month, you'd need $4K+ worth of software just to keep growing.

drm237 19y ago
I think that MySpace proves that going the MS route can be viable. PlentyOfFish.com seems to be doing pretty well also. I agree with 'idea' that the price isn't the issue, the complicated licensing structure is the administrative nightmare. I used to do all MS at the company I did IT for, but now that I'm on my own I concentrate on LAMP. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
- nickb 19y ago
  First of all, MySpace is not a startup and they have plenty of money to burn. They chose MS for many reasons, including the fact that they can hire a ton of people who know the platform. MS also did a lot of custom engineering on SQL Server to help them scale. If you read that giant article from CIO mag you'll see that this was one of the biggest plusses. If you're rich & have plenty of cash on hand, you don't have to worry about the cost. But if you're a startup, cashflow is everything.
  - deleted 19y ago
    [deleted]

DarrenStuart 19y ago

Its cheaper to become a microsoft partner which is free and then get the software action pack for about 400 dollars. This will give a small startup team all the ms software they will need to get the product made. They also send you a disc 4 times a year with the latest software and updates. It even includes office, vs, all the new silverlight tools etc.

drm237 19y ago
True, but I don't think you can use the action pack software in a production environment. It's more like MSDN software; for internal use in development/testing scenarios. Even still, it's a great deal and is highly recommended if you run any MS software in your shop.
- DarrenStuart 19y ago
  yep your right, you can't use it for hosting your app but you can use it to develop it. The example they use is you can use it to run your own interanet but not a clients. Cheaper than an MSDN sup as well.

kogir 19y ago

With the Service Provider License Agreement, which most web startups fall under, you pay per month for what you use. Machines kept as backups cost you nothing. The monthly fees are quite reasonable and make the software cost inconsequential relative to hardware and people. You also always get to use the latest version of everything. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to divulge exact pricing details, but the whole bundle of software mentioned in article would only cost $330 per month assuming reasonable hardware. Learn more at: http://www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/licensing/default.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/licensing/default....

nailer 19y ago

Add clustering - the so called 'server' platform still requires the entire OS to be restarted for non-kernel updates, so staying both secure and and available requires a second server.

mynameishere 19y ago

$7,775 according to Amazon.com's price. Wow. One month's salary and benefits. It's not inconceivable that Microsoft's products would save that much or more labor. I use linux because I'm cheap.