5 ms·

I really wish they would just base IE (or whatever this ends up being called) on WebKit or Blink and call it a day. They could immediately solve 90% of the actu

I really wish they would just base IE (or whatever this ends up being called) on WebKit or Blink and call it a day. They could immediately solve 90% of the actual problems people have with their browser, instead of tacking on crap that nobody's asking for. Once the real problems are fixed, feel free to tack on crap because IE is basically only exists as a way for people to download Chrome anyway.

theandrewbailey 12y ago
Build a browser on Webkit or Blink, just like everyone else? There's already dozens of those. You can download Chrome just as well in any browser. It's great that MS is improving IE, because having a Webkit/Blink dominated monoculture is bad. Didn't we learn this with IE6?
- integraton 12y ago
  > a Webkit/Blink dominated monoculture is bad Gecko exists. Furthermore, having many browsers using Webkit, Blink, and Gecko isn't "bad," and calling it a "monoculture" is a weasel word attempting to link it to the problem of IE's dominance in the 2000s. The problem with the 2000s IE monoculture wasn't just that it was a monoculture, it was that it was closed source, stagnant, and mostly single-platform. Webkit, Blink, and Gecko aren't.
- benaston 12y ago
  But this software is vapor. If you are running forwards slower than a treadmill is taking you back, are you advancing?
  - cwyers 12y ago
    How is this vapor? Vapor is something that doesn't exist, not something that hasn't been released yet.
    - theandrewbailey 12y ago
      Perhaps "vaporware" was meant, but this browser has only been known for two months (I think), and is presumably in heavy development.
- freshyill 12y ago
  There is one Web, yet browsers handle it differently. I'd very much rather have a monoculture in browser rendering engines if that's what it takes to make things just work consistently.
cwyers 12y ago
This actually seemed pretty convincing to me: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/470/maybe-windows-10s-spartan-isnt-going-suck https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/470/maybe-window... "The reason Microsoft didn’t adopt Blink is simple: Google. Aside from the obvious issues these two companies have with each other, consider a few other relevant details. Google had split Blink from WebKit earlier because it was always fighting with Apple and wanted control. But now Google is doing what it wants with Blink—as Apple did/does with WebKit—because it’s strategically important to Google. That is, Google could only be counted on to do what was best for Google at all times, and not what was best for Blink generally, and the community of companies using it." Given how Apple and Google had the public divorce over WebKit, it makes sense that Microsoft didn't trust Google enough to base their new browser on Blink.
ryankshaw 12y ago
I disagree. I hate IE, especially it's older versions. Dealing with ie 6-10 and all of their crappy warts and stagnation have made my life more difficult and objectively held the entire web back for years. But the reason why they are so crappy are not so much that they are made by Microsoft but because for much of that time they could be. IE 6 was way better than anything else at the time and for more than a decade after that, MS could just sit on their laurels untill others leap-frogged them. Competition is good. Webkit and Blink are better now, but without competition, there will be no one to push them forward.
ProAm 12y ago
> IE is basically only exists as a way for people to download Firefox anyway
Someone1234 12y ago
If everyone is based on WebKit then we'll eventually wind up in an IE 6.0-type situation where nothing moves forward because there are too many cooks in the kitchen. I think the competition between WebKit, Gecko, Trident, and KHTML is healthy and spawns innovation. Honestly I hope Microsoft keeps trying to make the best browser possible if for nothing else just to keep WebKit on its toes. Otherwise the others will spend less and top engineers will grow bored and move on to impactful problems.
untog 12y ago
IE 11 is fine. Good, even. They've already solved 90% of the actual problems people have - just not developer perceptions. I don't want a rendering engine monoculture.
- benaston 12y ago
  Yeah IE11 is fine, if you want basic ACID compliance and ES5 support, but this is 2015 and Chrome and FF leave IE in the dust when it comes to modern (i.e. as of 2015 modern) features like WebRTC, shadow DOM, web components, 3D transforms, yadda yadda.
  - untog 12y ago
    Right, it's a little old. But it's not fundamentally broken. And one of the proposals in Project Spartan is for the browser to be in the MS App Store, and for it to update automatically. That would be huge.
yohui 12y ago
Peter Bright suggests Microsoft should open source Trident: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/01/its-time-for-microsoft-to-open-source-internet-explorer/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/01/its-ti...

theandrewbailey 12y ago

Build a browser on Webkit or Blink, just like everyone else? There's already dozens of those. You can download Chrome just as well in any browser. It's great that MS is improving IE, because having a Webkit/Blink dominated monoculture is bad. Didn't we learn this with IE6?

integraton 12y ago
> a Webkit/Blink dominated monoculture is bad Gecko exists. Furthermore, having many browsers using Webkit, Blink, and Gecko isn't "bad," and calling it a "monoculture" is a weasel word attempting to link it to the problem of IE's dominance in the 2000s. The problem with the 2000s IE monoculture wasn't just that it was a monoculture, it was that it was closed source, stagnant, and mostly single-platform. Webkit, Blink, and Gecko aren't.
benaston 12y ago
But this software is vapor. If you are running forwards slower than a treadmill is taking you back, are you advancing?
- cwyers 12y ago
  How is this vapor? Vapor is something that doesn't exist, not something that hasn't been released yet.
  - theandrewbailey 12y ago
    Perhaps "vaporware" was meant, but this browser has only been known for two months (I think), and is presumably in heavy development.
freshyill 12y ago
There is one Web, yet browsers handle it differently. I'd very much rather have a monoculture in browser rendering engines if that's what it takes to make things just work consistently.

cwyers 12y ago

This actually seemed pretty convincing to me: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/470/maybe-windows-10s-spartan-isnt-going-suck https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/470/maybe-window... "The reason Microsoft didn’t adopt Blink is simple: Google. Aside from the obvious issues these two companies have with each other, consider a few other relevant details. Google had split Blink from WebKit earlier because it was always fighting with Apple and wanted control. But now Google is doing what it wants with Blink—as Apple did/does with WebKit—because it’s strategically important to Google. That is, Google could only be counted on to do what was best for Google at all times, and not what was best for Blink generally, and the community of companies using it." Given how Apple and Google had the public divorce over WebKit, it makes sense that Microsoft didn't trust Google enough to base their new browser on Blink.

ryankshaw 12y ago

I disagree. I hate IE, especially it's older versions. Dealing with ie 6-10 and all of their crappy warts and stagnation have made my life more difficult and objectively held the entire web back for years. But the reason why they are so crappy are not so much that they are made by Microsoft but because for much of that time they could be. IE 6 was way better than anything else at the time and for more than a decade after that, MS could just sit on their laurels untill others leap-frogged them. Competition is good. Webkit and Blink are better now, but without competition, there will be no one to push them forward.

ProAm 12y ago

> IE is basically only exists as a way for people to download Firefox anyway

Someone1234 12y ago

If everyone is based on WebKit then we'll eventually wind up in an IE 6.0-type situation where nothing moves forward because there are too many cooks in the kitchen. I think the competition between WebKit, Gecko, Trident, and KHTML is healthy and spawns innovation. Honestly I hope Microsoft keeps trying to make the best browser possible if for nothing else just to keep WebKit on its toes. Otherwise the others will spend less and top engineers will grow bored and move on to impactful problems.

untog 12y ago

IE 11 is fine. Good, even. They've already solved 90% of the actual problems people have - just not developer perceptions. I don't want a rendering engine monoculture.

benaston 12y ago
Yeah IE11 is fine, if you want basic ACID compliance and ES5 support, but this is 2015 and Chrome and FF leave IE in the dust when it comes to modern (i.e. as of 2015 modern) features like WebRTC, shadow DOM, web components, 3D transforms, yadda yadda.
- untog 12y ago
  Right, it's a little old. But it's not fundamentally broken. And one of the proposals in Project Spartan is for the browser to be in the MS App Store, and for it to update automatically. That would be huge.

yohui 12y ago

Peter Bright suggests Microsoft should open source Trident: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/01/its-time-for-microsoft-to-open-source-internet-explorer/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/01/its-ti...