4 ms·

Guys arguing about what "free for a year" means, be aware they DID specify this and if you think they haven't communicated it, you probably weren't there! "For

Guys arguing about what "free for a year" means, be aware they DID specify this and if you think they haven't communicated it, you probably weren't there! "For the first year after Windows 10 is available, we will be making available a free upgrade to Windows 10 for all devices running Windows 8.1. Once a device is upgraded to Windows 10, we'll be keeping it current for the supported lifetime for the device." If that's not clear enough for you, I don't know what to say! Furthermore the actual public awareness campaign hasn't started (this announcement came two hours ago, remember) so chill out for a second before calling something a poor job of communicating. They have a limited time to show off a huge amount of features including a goddamn top-secret holographic VR helmet, plus the details on the release aren't even ironed out yet, so if they didn't spend an extra five minutes drilling down on the release strategy (8 months away at this point) you're going to have to forgive them.

McGlockenshire 12y ago
Here's the smallprint from the page on their current Windows 10 promo site[1]: > It is our intent that most of these devices will qualify, but some hardware/software requirements apply and feature availability may vary by device. Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled. ISP fees may apply. Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update required. Some editions are excluded: Windows 7 Enterprise, Windows 8/8.1 Enterprise, and Windows RT/RT 8.1. Active Software Assurance customers in volume licensing have the benefit to upgrade to Windows 10 Enterprise outside of this offer. We will be sharing more information and additional offer terms in coming months. 1: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about
- devindotcom 12y ago
  No RT! That's harsh, but the truth is dropping RT like a bad habit is the best thing they could do. Sucks for anyone who bought a copy on a cheap tablet, though.
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    RT would have been amazing if they had been able to create an x86/64 emulator. Even if it ran 50% slower than on a native CPU and even if it ate battery like crazy at least it would have given the platform a nice back-catalogue. Instead not only did RT have virtually no software on it, but Microsoft went out of their way to make it "impossible" to build ARM-native software for it without essentially hacking into your own system. Microsoft set RT on the road to ruin from almost day one. It is unsurprising that they're pulling the plug. I will say when they announced the Surface Pro 3 without a Surface RT 3, the writing was on the wall as far as end of life...
    - tmzt 12y ago
      Or supported Win32 API which would have brought with it a number of open source and free applications, such as VLC, OpenOffice.org, AbiWord (smaller, so more suited to RT), and Firefox. It seems that Microsoft is working on a new UI for Office which will eliminate the need for Win32 support on devices such as RT in the future. At the same time they restrict what native applications can do on Metro devices, which limits the usefulness of existing codebases and forces Metro tablets to start over without the long time catalog of Windows software.
  - JohnTHaller 12y ago
    Windows proper won't run on Windows RT hardware, so this was kind of a given.
  - rasz_pl 12y ago
    No one is dropping RT. RT is being moved INTO your desktop and taking it over. Just look at the list of services running on your win8.whatever.
    - voltagex_ 12y ago
      Erm, vaguely the same amount that are visible in taskmgr/services.msc in Windows 7. I'm running the 10 Preview now and the "RT" part (Metro, I presume) is much less intrusive.
JeremyNT 12y ago
> we'll be keeping it current for the supported lifetime for the device. My question is: what exactly is the "supported lifetime for the device?" Is this "supported lifetime" defined by the manufacturer's warranty? The original OS date of installation? Something else?
- colechristensen 12y ago
  You're thinking too hard. It means if you install Windows 10 during the free period, it will be as if you bought a normal Windows license.
  - ars 12y ago
    That's not what they said though. That's what they want you to understand. If they meant that, they would have said that. There's a reason they chose the language they did.
    - wideroots 12y ago
      That's what they mean. You are listening/reading into it too much. Every Windows has a number of years for support, and this number can change. The number has never decreased and has only increased in the past because people/companies were too slow at getting rid of old Windows (e.g. Windows XP). We do not know what the actual number of years Microsoft is going to support for Windows 10, but I bet it's going to be around 10 years just like other Windows. Check http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle for the current list of Windows.
  - JeremyNT 12y ago
    Do you have a source for this, or is it just your assumption? "Supported lifetime for the device" does not necessarily mean "supported lifetime for Windows 10." Although your interpretation may be correct, they have (intentionally or otherwise) used ambiguous wording in how they describe this.
jtgeibel 12y ago
The part that confuses me, and that I hope they sufficiently clarify, is that I run my (rarely used) copy of Windows in a VM. So I can move that VM from one machine to another as I upgrade my hardware. This seems to route around their "supported lifetime for the device" language, as they are most likely relying on eventual hardware obsolescence and continued income from OEM installs. But in a sense I'm evading that by moving the VM from one laptop with Linux pre-installed to another. As far as I am aware, installing Windows in a VM has always been allowed by their license (although they tried to limit this in some way in the past and eventually backtracked, around the time of Vista if I recall). Will they attempt to return to such restrictions, or simply write people like me off as an extremely small portion of their install base from which they do not expect to extract further revenue?
- STRiDEX 12y ago
  Take a snapshot of the VM and reset it to that point when the free trial period expires. They have you do this with their official VM's for IE testing.
  - jtgeibel 12y ago
    But this isn't a free trial period. My understanding is that if you upgrade in the first year then you have a fully licensed version of Windows for the lifetime of the "device". But what is the lifetime of a virtual machine?
    - Jare 12y ago
      Until you delete the VM. The VM is a software device. [EDIT] Or the virtualization software stops being able to run your VM.

McGlockenshire 12y ago

Here's the smallprint from the page on their current Windows 10 promo site[1]: > It is our intent that most of these devices will qualify, but some hardware/software requirements apply and feature availability may vary by device. Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled. ISP fees may apply. Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update required. Some editions are excluded: Windows 7 Enterprise, Windows 8/8.1 Enterprise, and Windows RT/RT 8.1. Active Software Assurance customers in volume licensing have the benefit to upgrade to Windows 10 Enterprise outside of this offer. We will be sharing more information and additional offer terms in coming months. 1: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about

devindotcom 12y ago
No RT! That's harsh, but the truth is dropping RT like a bad habit is the best thing they could do. Sucks for anyone who bought a copy on a cheap tablet, though.
- Someone1234 12y ago
  RT would have been amazing if they had been able to create an x86/64 emulator. Even if it ran 50% slower than on a native CPU and even if it ate battery like crazy at least it would have given the platform a nice back-catalogue. Instead not only did RT have virtually no software on it, but Microsoft went out of their way to make it "impossible" to build ARM-native software for it without essentially hacking into your own system. Microsoft set RT on the road to ruin from almost day one. It is unsurprising that they're pulling the plug. I will say when they announced the Surface Pro 3 without a Surface RT 3, the writing was on the wall as far as end of life...
  - tmzt 12y ago
    Or supported Win32 API which would have brought with it a number of open source and free applications, such as VLC, OpenOffice.org, AbiWord (smaller, so more suited to RT), and Firefox. It seems that Microsoft is working on a new UI for Office which will eliminate the need for Win32 support on devices such as RT in the future. At the same time they restrict what native applications can do on Metro devices, which limits the usefulness of existing codebases and forces Metro tablets to start over without the long time catalog of Windows software.
- JohnTHaller 12y ago
  Windows proper won't run on Windows RT hardware, so this was kind of a given.
- rasz_pl 12y ago
  No one is dropping RT. RT is being moved INTO your desktop and taking it over. Just look at the list of services running on your win8.whatever.
  - voltagex_ 12y ago
    Erm, vaguely the same amount that are visible in taskmgr/services.msc in Windows 7. I'm running the 10 Preview now and the "RT" part (Metro, I presume) is much less intrusive.

JeremyNT 12y ago

> we'll be keeping it current for the supported lifetime for the device. My question is: what exactly is the "supported lifetime for the device?" Is this "supported lifetime" defined by the manufacturer's warranty? The original OS date of installation? Something else?

colechristensen 12y ago
You're thinking too hard. It means if you install Windows 10 during the free period, it will be as if you bought a normal Windows license.
- ars 12y ago
  That's not what they said though. That's what they want you to understand. If they meant that, they would have said that. There's a reason they chose the language they did.
  - wideroots 12y ago
    That's what they mean. You are listening/reading into it too much. Every Windows has a number of years for support, and this number can change. The number has never decreased and has only increased in the past because people/companies were too slow at getting rid of old Windows (e.g. Windows XP). We do not know what the actual number of years Microsoft is going to support for Windows 10, but I bet it's going to be around 10 years just like other Windows. Check http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle for the current list of Windows.
- JeremyNT 12y ago
  Do you have a source for this, or is it just your assumption? "Supported lifetime for the device" does not necessarily mean "supported lifetime for Windows 10." Although your interpretation may be correct, they have (intentionally or otherwise) used ambiguous wording in how they describe this.

jtgeibel 12y ago

The part that confuses me, and that I hope they sufficiently clarify, is that I run my (rarely used) copy of Windows in a VM. So I can move that VM from one machine to another as I upgrade my hardware. This seems to route around their "supported lifetime for the device" language, as they are most likely relying on eventual hardware obsolescence and continued income from OEM installs. But in a sense I'm evading that by moving the VM from one laptop with Linux pre-installed to another. As far as I am aware, installing Windows in a VM has always been allowed by their license (although they tried to limit this in some way in the past and eventually backtracked, around the time of Vista if I recall). Will they attempt to return to such restrictions, or simply write people like me off as an extremely small portion of their install base from which they do not expect to extract further revenue?

STRiDEX 12y ago
Take a snapshot of the VM and reset it to that point when the free trial period expires. They have you do this with their official VM's for IE testing.
- jtgeibel 12y ago
  But this isn't a free trial period. My understanding is that if you upgrade in the first year then you have a fully licensed version of Windows for the lifetime of the "device". But what is the lifetime of a virtual machine?
  - Jare 12y ago
    Until you delete the VM. The VM is a software device. [EDIT] Or the virtualization software stops being able to run your VM.