3 ms·

Yes, definitely this. Don't go through the front door. At most, use publicly listed job ads as a form of research. Never assume they represent all the jobs tha

by ef4 12y ago

Yes, definitely this. Don't go through the front door. At most, use publicly listed job ads as a form of research. Never assume they represent all the jobs that are actually available to you. There is no substitute for actually talking to people and getting to know them. Make your own wishlist of companies you'd like to work for. People running startups who are even minimally competent know they need to network a lot, so they're easy to find and network with.

joshavant 12y ago
For what it's worth, n=1, I got an internship at Google and a full-time job at Apple by applying through their respective websites. I wholeheartedly agree with checking out 'other' doors, but it definitely doesn't hurt to at least start with the front door.
- brudgers 12y ago
  Google and Apple are the exceptions. They are massive profitable publicly held companies. And they don't compensate ordinary hires with equity on a percentage basis (maybe x number of shares as a bonus/retirement package). They are so big that they have HR policies and anyone you are likely to know well enough to give a heads up on a job at either company is not high up enough to shirk the formal HR process. Small companies are very very different.
  - dsacco 12y ago
    I'm on a first name basis with well-known engineers high enough to shrink the formal HR process at Google, Yahoo and Facebook. If I asked to interview with them tomorrow, they'd put me in the process immediately, in an expedited manner. I'd probably go straight to the on-site interview. I'm not bragging about this, because it really wasn't difficult to do. I didn't go to school with them, and with one exception I met them all after they had joined their companies. Cold-emailing influential people, or introducing yourself to them at meetups, or any one of the myriad other ways to meet people applies in this situation. Just be genuine, and network with them long before you'd ever want to call in a favor, this way you actually have a relationship with them. It also helps if you share something in common and actually have something to talk about, and if you want to connect with them for the sake of having smart colleagues, not just influential friends.
    - strathmeyer 12y ago
      When my good friends whom I helped get jobs now work for Google won't speak to me anymore, I just assume it's because they know I wouldn't make a good programmer there. It's a rough river to paddle.
    - brudgers 12y ago
      The comment to which I responded mentioned an internship at Google and a [presumably early career stage] job at Apple. I consider it an orange relative to a situation where a person has developed collegial peer relationships over some number of years in a profession.

by ef4 12y ago

joshavant 12y ago

For what it's worth, n=1, I got an internship at Google and a full-time job at Apple by applying through their respective websites. I wholeheartedly agree with checking out 'other' doors, but it definitely doesn't hurt to at least start with the front door.

brudgers 12y ago
Google and Apple are the exceptions. They are massive profitable publicly held companies. And they don't compensate ordinary hires with equity on a percentage basis (maybe x number of shares as a bonus/retirement package). They are so big that they have HR policies and anyone you are likely to know well enough to give a heads up on a job at either company is not high up enough to shirk the formal HR process. Small companies are very very different.
- dsacco 12y ago
  I'm on a first name basis with well-known engineers high enough to shrink the formal HR process at Google, Yahoo and Facebook. If I asked to interview with them tomorrow, they'd put me in the process immediately, in an expedited manner. I'd probably go straight to the on-site interview. I'm not bragging about this, because it really wasn't difficult to do. I didn't go to school with them, and with one exception I met them all after they had joined their companies. Cold-emailing influential people, or introducing yourself to them at meetups, or any one of the myriad other ways to meet people applies in this situation. Just be genuine, and network with them long before you'd ever want to call in a favor, this way you actually have a relationship with them. It also helps if you share something in common and actually have something to talk about, and if you want to connect with them for the sake of having smart colleagues, not just influential friends.
  - strathmeyer 12y ago
    When my good friends whom I helped get jobs now work for Google won't speak to me anymore, I just assume it's because they know I wouldn't make a good programmer there. It's a rough river to paddle.
  - brudgers 12y ago
    The comment to which I responded mentioned an internship at Google and a [presumably early career stage] job at Apple. I consider it an orange relative to a situation where a person has developed collegial peer relationships over some number of years in a profession.