5 ms·

I know it will never happen but if I could have a native full featured bash or zsh environment on Windows I would switch back in a heartbeat. And no, Cygwin is

I know it will never happen but if I could have a native full featured bash or zsh environment on Windows I would switch back in a heartbeat. And no, Cygwin is not a replacement.

moystard 12y ago
I use Git Bash personnally as a command line when on Windows, and I find it brilliant.
sz4kerto 12y ago
You could also learn Powershell. It is very different but similarly powerful in my opinion. (Learning new things doesn't hurt anyway.)
- cpfohl 12y ago
  Powershell is a lot better than CMD was (at least if you're used to bash/zsh; cmd and bash have too many false cognates, making it realy difficult to be able to switch between easily). That being said, bash's object model is infinitely easier to understand (what objects? it's all text and files).
  - wvenable 12y ago
    I know more bash than I know powershell but you have to admit that shell scripting is hardly sane or well designed.
    - cpfohl 12y ago
      I'm mainly referring to the (more or less central to linux) concept that everything is a file, and that you pass informatation between programs by pipelining text (and, if necessary, saving binary information to file that gets read by the next process).
      - wvenable 12y ago
        I think Powershell is just a modern take on what makes the Unix shell powerful. But instead of files and text, it's structured data. A lot of unnecessary parsing and happens in unix tools. Programs generate a lot of structured data, dump as human-structured text, which is then parsed by the next tool, processed, dumped as more text, parsed again by the next tool, processed, etc. Right now I'm working with an SDK that does it and it actually needs Python code to parse the output from different tools to glue them together.
loarabia 12y ago
Can you tell me more about the native or full featured bash or zsh environment you're interested in? Do you want inbox bash/zsh? Do you want native coreutils? Do you want the full POSIX API layer? something else? Also, can you tell me about your workflow or what you envision it to be in this environment? I ask because I work in the console space at Microsoft and am keen on understanding the features you're looking for and what scenarios you're attempting to satisfy. We also have a user voice going where we've been fortunate enough to gather a lot of passionate feedback. https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt/category/87960-cmd https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt/cat...
- diminoten 12y ago
  I want what Cygwin gives me, for starters, so POSIX API (I think). I don't want to have to relearn commands that I know work in *nix land, is the big point -- I don't want to have to remember to change the directions of my slashes, for example. I'm not an expert, merely a user, in this space, so I can't really articulate precisely what it is I want in the best terms possible, but I can say I get a lot closer to where I want to be with Cygwin than I get with anything that comes native on Windows.
  - elektronjunge 12y ago
    You can use forward slashes in paths in cmd and powershell. But yes, I agree with your main point.
  - loarabia 12y ago
    Good feedback. When you work in Cygwin, are you doing admin type tasks, web dev, writing console utilities, something else related to app dev?
    - diminoten 12y ago
      In systems where I find myself in the shell, I tend to prefer the shell to everything except certain system configuration tasks (I like the shell for things like tweaking network settings, but dislike it for things like printer config, for example), and for actual software dev (IDEs still win for me). Once I feel I can buy into the shell, I'll probably go all in. Until then, I try to use Cygwin to avoid having to switch to a *nix box when I just want to use a simple admin utility or maybe test something out in the Python REPL, but otherwise I just tend to switch when I want to spend a work day on something.
scardine 12y ago
Try GoW (GNU on Windows) - several of my favorite command line utilities compiled as native windows binaries (no need for funky "/cygdrive/C/foo" paths). Combined it with a better terminal like ConEmu and I feel at home.

I know it will never happen but if I could have a native full featured bash or zsh environment on Windows I would switch back in a heartbeat. And no, Cygwin is not a replacement.

moystard 12y ago

I use Git Bash personnally as a command line when on Windows, and I find it brilliant.

sz4kerto 12y ago

You could also learn Powershell. It is very different but similarly powerful in my opinion. (Learning new things doesn't hurt anyway.)

cpfohl 12y ago
Powershell is a lot better than CMD was (at least if you're used to bash/zsh; cmd and bash have too many false cognates, making it realy difficult to be able to switch between easily). That being said, bash's object model is infinitely easier to understand (what objects? it's all text and files).
- wvenable 12y ago
  I know more bash than I know powershell but you have to admit that shell scripting is hardly sane or well designed.
  - cpfohl 12y ago
    I'm mainly referring to the (more or less central to linux) concept that everything is a file, and that you pass informatation between programs by pipelining text (and, if necessary, saving binary information to file that gets read by the next process).
    - wvenable 12y ago
      I think Powershell is just a modern take on what makes the Unix shell powerful. But instead of files and text, it's structured data. A lot of unnecessary parsing and happens in unix tools. Programs generate a lot of structured data, dump as human-structured text, which is then parsed by the next tool, processed, dumped as more text, parsed again by the next tool, processed, etc. Right now I'm working with an SDK that does it and it actually needs Python code to parse the output from different tools to glue them together.

loarabia 12y ago

Can you tell me more about the native or full featured bash or zsh environment you're interested in? Do you want inbox bash/zsh? Do you want native coreutils? Do you want the full POSIX API layer? something else? Also, can you tell me about your workflow or what you envision it to be in this environment? I ask because I work in the console space at Microsoft and am keen on understanding the features you're looking for and what scenarios you're attempting to satisfy. We also have a user voice going where we've been fortunate enough to gather a lot of passionate feedback. https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt/category/87960-cmd https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt/cat...

diminoten 12y ago
I want what Cygwin gives me, for starters, so POSIX API (I think). I don't want to have to relearn commands that I know work in *nix land, is the big point -- I don't want to have to remember to change the directions of my slashes, for example. I'm not an expert, merely a user, in this space, so I can't really articulate precisely what it is I want in the best terms possible, but I can say I get a lot closer to where I want to be with Cygwin than I get with anything that comes native on Windows.
- elektronjunge 12y ago
  You can use forward slashes in paths in cmd and powershell. But yes, I agree with your main point.
- loarabia 12y ago
  Good feedback. When you work in Cygwin, are you doing admin type tasks, web dev, writing console utilities, something else related to app dev?
  - diminoten 12y ago
    In systems where I find myself in the shell, I tend to prefer the shell to everything except certain system configuration tasks (I like the shell for things like tweaking network settings, but dislike it for things like printer config, for example), and for actual software dev (IDEs still win for me). Once I feel I can buy into the shell, I'll probably go all in. Until then, I try to use Cygwin to avoid having to switch to a *nix box when I just want to use a simple admin utility or maybe test something out in the Python REPL, but otherwise I just tend to switch when I want to spend a work day on something.

scardine 12y ago

Try GoW (GNU on Windows) - several of my favorite command line utilities compiled as native windows binaries (no need for funky "/cygdrive/C/foo" paths). Combined it with a better terminal like ConEmu and I feel at home.