8 ms·

So long as OS X has the unix-y goodness underneath it, I can't imagine switching back, either. I hope Windows continues to improve, but I can't imagine choosing

by revscat 12y ago

So long as OS X has the unix-y goodness underneath it, I can't imagine switching back, either. I hope Windows continues to improve, but I can't imagine choosing to use it again.

scardine 12y ago
GoW + ConEmu make Windows 8 acceptable for me.
Igglyboo 12y ago
This is the killer for me as well, unless Windows somehow becomes POSIX compliant I just don't see me switching back.
- ksk 12y ago
  Windows has been POSIX compliant for about 20 years.
  - RadioactiveMan 12y ago
    Could you elaborate? In what I've learned (in the past few minutes) it looks like it hasn't has POSIX compatibility since an optional subsystem up to Windows 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#POSIX_for_Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#POSIX_for_Windows
    - ksk 12y ago
      Elaborate on what? You have to purchase a version of Windows that has the POSIX layer because POSIX compliance costs money. From what I gather it has been dropped in Windows 8.1.
  - agildehaus 12y ago
    Services for UNIX has always been optional, was depreciated in 8.0 (and only available for Enterprise SKUs), and removed entirely in 8.1. Modern Windows is decidedly not POSIX-compliant.
    - ksk 12y ago
      It has been optional because you have to pay for it. POSIX compliance has a cost associated with it. Not that I think POSIX compliance has any value anymore, mind you. I was replying to someone for whom POSIX compliance was a make or break feature. Anyway, I sense an argument drift from "Windows" to "Modern Windows". Nice. I guess earlier versions of Windows stopped being Windows once version 8.1 was released.
      - derefr 12y ago
        > I guess earlier versions of Windows stopped being Windows once version 8.1 was released. Well, yeah. We're (presumably) talking about software architecture choices here. Are you telling me you'd purposefully build a new system on top of an old version of Windows, and specifically on old features that have since been deprecated+removed? If not, then it doesn't matter what old Windows does; "Windows is not POSIX-compliant" is the fact that you are making a choice based upon when you design a system right now.
        ksk 12y ago
        POSIX compliance (which probably only serves as a checkbox for some arcane procurement guideline) is only relevant in niche markets. You are trying to apply a general software design thought process which unfortunately doesn't work there. People still ship WinCE and '95 software. Software targeting old UNIX systems is still being written today. BTW, I can purchase a copy of windows 8 today (which is going to be supported by Microsoft till 2023) that is POSIX compliant. So the argument is moot anyway.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
slantyyz 12y ago
I just switched back to Windows after about a decade on OSX (I was on Windows the decade before that and MacOS the decade before that). My reasons for switching are more hardware related, so I won't get into that. For the most part, it doesn't really matter what OS I use, since the tools I use are pretty much available everywhere. Before I made the switch, however, I was really worried that I'd have a much inferior user experience on Windows than OSX. But that turned out to be a non-issue. I thought I'd be concerned about being stuck with cmd.exe, but Cmder is awesome. I don't really need to change any of my OSX terminal habits at all. I thought I'd miss Gitbox. I still do, but SourceTree does enough of a good job that I can get by. The one thing I like about OSX is the level of polish of the UI and of apps that run in the OS. Things on Windows aren't at OSX's level, but they are generally way better than they were when I switched to OSX. Faint praise, I guess. The Windows 8 Start Menu thing. I thought I would hate it. But here's the thing, I switched to using Spotlight to launch everything in OSX, and it's pretty much the same thing on Windows, just hit Windows key, and type the name of the app I want to launch. Having said that, Windows local search is horrible vs. Spotlight. There is a (paid) fix - Listary is a great substitute for Spotlight on Windows. I hated Windows Explorer post Windows 2000 (but I still hate Windows Explorer less than Finder). It still sucks. But Classic Explorer restores things to the way I preferred back in the day. My day to day tools are pretty much cross platform, Sublime, DBVisualizer, PGAdmin, Evernote, Postbox, etc. So there were very few hiccups there. Windows is far from perfect (although Windows 10 definitely looks like it addresses my biggest annoyances), but it's not a huge downgrade from OSX in the way a lot of people think about it. I still prefer Windows over Linux Desktops, probably because the way it works is a lot more familiar to me than Linux.

by revscat 12y ago

So long as OS X has the unix-y goodness underneath it, I can't imagine switching back, either. I hope Windows continues to improve, but I can't imagine choosing to use it again.

scardine 12y ago

GoW + ConEmu make Windows 8 acceptable for me.

Igglyboo 12y ago

This is the killer for me as well, unless Windows somehow becomes POSIX compliant I just don't see me switching back.

ksk 12y ago
Windows has been POSIX compliant for about 20 years.
- RadioactiveMan 12y ago
  Could you elaborate? In what I've learned (in the past few minutes) it looks like it hasn't has POSIX compatibility since an optional subsystem up to Windows 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#POSIX_for_Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#POSIX_for_Windows
  - ksk 12y ago
    Elaborate on what? You have to purchase a version of Windows that has the POSIX layer because POSIX compliance costs money. From what I gather it has been dropped in Windows 8.1.
- agildehaus 12y ago
  Services for UNIX has always been optional, was depreciated in 8.0 (and only available for Enterprise SKUs), and removed entirely in 8.1. Modern Windows is decidedly not POSIX-compliant.
  - ksk 12y ago
    It has been optional because you have to pay for it. POSIX compliance has a cost associated with it. Not that I think POSIX compliance has any value anymore, mind you. I was replying to someone for whom POSIX compliance was a make or break feature. Anyway, I sense an argument drift from "Windows" to "Modern Windows". Nice. I guess earlier versions of Windows stopped being Windows once version 8.1 was released.
    - derefr 12y ago
      > I guess earlier versions of Windows stopped being Windows once version 8.1 was released. Well, yeah. We're (presumably) talking about software architecture choices here. Are you telling me you'd purposefully build a new system on top of an old version of Windows, and specifically on old features that have since been deprecated+removed? If not, then it doesn't matter what old Windows does; "Windows is not POSIX-compliant" is the fact that you are making a choice based upon when you design a system right now.
      - ksk 12y ago
        POSIX compliance (which probably only serves as a checkbox for some arcane procurement guideline) is only relevant in niche markets. You are trying to apply a general software design thought process which unfortunately doesn't work there. People still ship WinCE and '95 software. Software targeting old UNIX systems is still being written today. BTW, I can purchase a copy of windows 8 today (which is going to be supported by Microsoft till 2023) that is POSIX compliant. So the argument is moot anyway.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

slantyyz 12y ago

I just switched back to Windows after about a decade on OSX (I was on Windows the decade before that and MacOS the decade before that). My reasons for switching are more hardware related, so I won't get into that. For the most part, it doesn't really matter what OS I use, since the tools I use are pretty much available everywhere. Before I made the switch, however, I was really worried that I'd have a much inferior user experience on Windows than OSX. But that turned out to be a non-issue. I thought I'd be concerned about being stuck with cmd.exe, but Cmder is awesome. I don't really need to change any of my OSX terminal habits at all. I thought I'd miss Gitbox. I still do, but SourceTree does enough of a good job that I can get by. The one thing I like about OSX is the level of polish of the UI and of apps that run in the OS. Things on Windows aren't at OSX's level, but they are generally way better than they were when I switched to OSX. Faint praise, I guess. The Windows 8 Start Menu thing. I thought I would hate it. But here's the thing, I switched to using Spotlight to launch everything in OSX, and it's pretty much the same thing on Windows, just hit Windows key, and type the name of the app I want to launch. Having said that, Windows local search is horrible vs. Spotlight. There is a (paid) fix - Listary is a great substitute for Spotlight on Windows. I hated Windows Explorer post Windows 2000 (but I still hate Windows Explorer less than Finder). It still sucks. But Classic Explorer restores things to the way I preferred back in the day. My day to day tools are pretty much cross platform, Sublime, DBVisualizer, PGAdmin, Evernote, Postbox, etc. So there were very few hiccups there. Windows is far from perfect (although Windows 10 definitely looks like it addresses my biggest annoyances), but it's not a huge downgrade from OSX in the way a lot of people think about it. I still prefer Windows over Linux Desktops, probably because the way it works is a lot more familiar to me than Linux.