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> Russians liked to send humans into the meat grinder ill equipped That is simplistic (and largely wrong) view fueled by propaganda and post war "Winners (or c

> Russians liked to send humans into the meat grinder ill equipped That is simplistic (and largely wrong) view fueled by propaganda and post war "Winners (or current cold war combatants) rewrite history) OP is talking about. The German invasion of USSR caught them completely off guard, without the organization or material needed to fight. Reeling they did what they had to (sacrifice hundreds of thousands) to save Moscow, and buy time to move production east and organize a real defense. It was a heroic sacrifice and amazing military victory to survive the blitzkrieg. Later in the war USSR had the most of everything planes, tanks, artillery, and still men. Arguably the best tank of the war, one of if not the best ground attack plane. During the later winter offensives it was the Germans who sent their troops ill prepared for war. And all the Hitler no retreat orders led to many german meatgrinders.

ajuc 12y ago
But it's confirmed that during many battles political officers shoot at soviet soldiers that tried to retreat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops#Barrier_troops_in_the_Red_Army http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops#Barrier_troops_i... Hard to expect small casualties when you shoot your soldiers with machineguns from the back.
- njharman 12y ago
  First, they expected huge casualties. That is part of my point. Manpower was one of their only resources at start of war. The leaders and the people made the tough decision to sacrifice them to stay in the war. Unlike two previous victims of Blitzkrieg. Second, those weren't universal. Only used in specific circumstances (as your link states). And IIRC, largely done away with later in the war after USSR production caught up and they won strategic initiative.
  - ajuc 12y ago
    > Unlike two previous victims of Blitzkrieg. Please. Had USSR had the territorial situation of Poland (Germany to north and west, german allies participating in invasion south and east) it would fall just as well. No point in sacrificing hundreds of tousands of lives (which BTW Poles did in 1944 in Warsaw Uprising anyway - bad mistake of Polish government). BTW a lot of USSR early problems with German betrayal were self-inflicted (red terror disposed of big part of educated officers for example, also Stalin prepared invasion of his own - there was infrastructure prepared to attack, not to defend).

ajuc 12y ago

But it's confirmed that during many battles political officers shoot at soviet soldiers that tried to retreat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops#Barrier_troops_in_the_Red_Army http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops#Barrier_troops_i... Hard to expect small casualties when you shoot your soldiers with machineguns from the back.

njharman 12y ago
First, they expected huge casualties. That is part of my point. Manpower was one of their only resources at start of war. The leaders and the people made the tough decision to sacrifice them to stay in the war. Unlike two previous victims of Blitzkrieg. Second, those weren't universal. Only used in specific circumstances (as your link states). And IIRC, largely done away with later in the war after USSR production caught up and they won strategic initiative.
- ajuc 12y ago
  > Unlike two previous victims of Blitzkrieg. Please. Had USSR had the territorial situation of Poland (Germany to north and west, german allies participating in invasion south and east) it would fall just as well. No point in sacrificing hundreds of tousands of lives (which BTW Poles did in 1944 in Warsaw Uprising anyway - bad mistake of Polish government). BTW a lot of USSR early problems with German betrayal were self-inflicted (red terror disposed of big part of educated officers for example, also Stalin prepared invasion of his own - there was infrastructure prepared to attack, not to defend).