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> Thus, I don't really think that learning Python offers solid programming foundations. I agree. But there is a huge class of people that this argument tends t

> Thus, I don't really think that learning Python offers solid programming foundations. I agree. But there is a huge class of people that this argument tends to miss - all the people who learn programming as a tool and not a way of life, like scientists or engineers from other departments. For those, it's ideal to learn one language, and it's OK if they don't completely understand CS. For them it's better to know a language that has wide range of practical applications. So unless you are absolutely sure that you're going to learn CS, I would still suggest Python as a first (and possibly only) language. I would also say that doing GUI in like PyQt is really easy, but the documentation and tutorials are lacking.

coffeecheque 12y ago
This is a really good point. I am not a programmer at all, but did learn a little bit of ASP.NET at university. I never use it anymore, but I ended up teaching myself PHP. I use PHP regularly, not to build anything grand - but it gets me by. I can write little scripts like working out who's unfollowed me on Twitter, small information systems, reminder applications, hack Wordpress plugins, etc. I wish I was taught Python at uni right out of the blocks. I've tried to learn it a few times, but ended up forgetting to do lessons and just going back the the crutch that is PHP. The theory of CS is way beyond me at this stage of life, but a little bit of programming knowledge is a very useful thing (even if it is only PHP)
- phatfish 12y ago
  If you can understand the the core ideas of data structures and how to manipulate them (Arrays, Loops, Conditionals, Objects etc.), and can put that understanding into practice to solve a problem, you really are 90% of the way there. Learning another language is easy, just try it :) Also a language like Python really is a breath of fresh air if your only experience is PHP.
johnloeber 12y ago
Yes, that's a good point. Some people might not actually need to cultivate a deep understanding of CS -- they just need a tool to get the job done. Not everyone who uses a hammer needs to take carpentry lessons. In that sense, Python can be a very appropriate choice.
- markdown 12y ago
  > Some people might not actually need to cultivate a deep understanding of CS Most people :)
  - mentat 12y ago
    Some people who do computer programming might not need CS was the point I believe.
- yawaramin 12y ago
  Exactly, for the others there's Software Carpentry: http://software-carpentry.org/lessons.html http://software-carpentry.org/lessons.html

coffeecheque 12y ago

This is a really good point. I am not a programmer at all, but did learn a little bit of ASP.NET at university. I never use it anymore, but I ended up teaching myself PHP. I use PHP regularly, not to build anything grand - but it gets me by. I can write little scripts like working out who's unfollowed me on Twitter, small information systems, reminder applications, hack Wordpress plugins, etc. I wish I was taught Python at uni right out of the blocks. I've tried to learn it a few times, but ended up forgetting to do lessons and just going back the the crutch that is PHP. The theory of CS is way beyond me at this stage of life, but a little bit of programming knowledge is a very useful thing (even if it is only PHP)

phatfish 12y ago
If you can understand the the core ideas of data structures and how to manipulate them (Arrays, Loops, Conditionals, Objects etc.), and can put that understanding into practice to solve a problem, you really are 90% of the way there. Learning another language is easy, just try it :) Also a language like Python really is a breath of fresh air if your only experience is PHP.

johnloeber 12y ago

Yes, that's a good point. Some people might not actually need to cultivate a deep understanding of CS -- they just need a tool to get the job done. Not everyone who uses a hammer needs to take carpentry lessons. In that sense, Python can be a very appropriate choice.

markdown 12y ago
> Some people might not actually need to cultivate a deep understanding of CS Most people :)
- mentat 12y ago
  Some people who do computer programming might not need CS was the point I believe.
yawaramin 12y ago
Exactly, for the others there's Software Carpentry: http://software-carpentry.org/lessons.html http://software-carpentry.org/lessons.html