10 ms·

> "Crunch sucks, but if it is seen by the team members as a fair cost of participating in an otherwise fantastic employment experience..." Oh, I see: workers s

> "Crunch sucks, but if it is seen by the team members as a fair cost of participating in an otherwise fantastic employment experience..." Oh, I see: workers should repay employers for a "fantastic employment experience". Boy oh boy. I say if your industry is such that you must have this sort of in-depth investigation in order to simply work normal work-weeks, your goose is already cooked.

astrodust 12y ago
When you die of a heart-attack brought on by too much Red Bull and sleep deprivation, they can put on your tombstone: "Died coding, but at least the trees in GTA V looked really nice."
- ekianjo 12y ago
  Thats more than what most people can expect on their epitaph, though.
  - tdees40 12y ago
    It's really not. Most people would put "Great (father|mother)", "Wonderful Friend", but I suppose that's a value judgment and each has his or her own opinion.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      "Great","Wonderful" is all relative. You don't usually benchmark your parents/friends with others, and in the case of parents there's a significant bias, because you know, you share half of your genes with them and stuff like that. And what I meant is, rather, few people can claim to have touch millions of people through their work, but someone who worked on GTA V can, even if it's just a tiny part of it.
      - jerf 12y ago
        Here Lies Jerf Probably in at least the 60th Percentile of Parents (Based on a Biased Self-Reporting Survey of his Children) THIS EPITAPH APPROVED BY EKIANJO (No offense intended. The idea tickled me.)
        ekianjo 12y ago
        haha :) I found that funny.
      - coldtea 12y ago
        >"Great","Wonderful" is all relative Whereas the impact you've made to "millions of people" because of the quality of graphics in a game where pimps shoot people in the streets and beat women up is a subjective accomplishment?
        ekianjo 12y ago
        Well everything is part of the experience. If something stands out in the game some people are bound to notice it, and no matter the subject of the game (GTA V was brought to light here but it could be any other popular game) you will probably feel responsible for some of the good reviews the game got (and how successful it was market wise). Beyond what you did as a person you were part of a team working on something that many people enjoyed.
        ncza 12y ago
        GTA is a sandbox game. If violence against virtual women is all you do in it and that concerns you, I would highly recommend seeing a psychologist to find help.
        coldtea 12y ago
        >If violence against virtual women is all you do in it and that concerns you, I would highly recommend seeing a psychologist to find help. Do people really think it's tactful and/or polite to suggest psychiatic treatment to others in a discussion? Especially after mis-reading their whole point? I don't do anything in GTA, have never played the game. The parent comment presented it as a something to be proud about as compared to being a parent/friend/etc. I just wanted to point out it's not some great achievement humanity wise.
- atomicfiredoll 12y ago
  To be fair, this is why I have no issue when GTA V for PC gets pushed back for the one-hundredth time. Maybe they didn't estimate it well, but hopefully they aren't buying in to the pro-crunch philosophy either. It seems like they're really trying to do it right and the end product will will probably reflect that.
  - shortsleeves 12y ago
    http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/86315/Wives_of_Rockstar_San_Diego_employees_have_collected_themselves.php http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/86315...
    - Svip 12y ago
      I don't know, but I don't think Rockstar North and Rockstar San Diego usually operates under the same principles.
jiggy2011 12y ago
If people continue to work in the games industry despite the workload and pay they must be getting something out of it.
- serve_yay 12y ago
  Indeed, and bless their hearts.
- pixl97 12y ago
  People commonly work against their own self interests. People commonly vote against their own self interests. People commonly do stupid things.
  - jiggy2011 12y ago
    What if you really enjoy working on games that much?
- potatolicious 12y ago
  People continue to join the games industry - attrition rates are sky high and the vast majority do not last. Perhaps the argument should be reframed as - why is it that despite high-profile and commonly known, and completely batshit insane working conditions, do people still sign up (and then quit the industry entirely)? Are we doing a poor job publicizing these conditions, or are the stories just so horrifying that they become almost outlandishly unbelievable?
  - jiggy2011 12y ago
    Everyone I knew who went into games knew what the conditions were before they joined. It's only bad if you don't have a backup plan.
  - andrewfong 12y ago
    I'm armchair psychoanalyzing, but I think it's largely because the people entering the games industry are young and it's exceptionally difficult to grasp how terrible something like 80 hour work weeks are until you've been through a few. I mean, it's fairly common for university students to forgo sleep crunching for finals or spend ungodly amounts of time playing their favorite game. Add in "it's not work if you love what you do" and "I'm a special and unique," and you can see how someone might be persuaded to join the games industry in spite of the overwhelming evidence that this is a terrible idea. For what it's worth, this also seems to be true of the legal and medical professions as well. And, more relevantly, startup founders.

astrodust 12y ago

When you die of a heart-attack brought on by too much Red Bull and sleep deprivation, they can put on your tombstone: "Died coding, but at least the trees in GTA V looked really nice."

ekianjo 12y ago
Thats more than what most people can expect on their epitaph, though.
- tdees40 12y ago
  It's really not. Most people would put "Great (father|mother)", "Wonderful Friend", but I suppose that's a value judgment and each has his or her own opinion.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    "Great","Wonderful" is all relative. You don't usually benchmark your parents/friends with others, and in the case of parents there's a significant bias, because you know, you share half of your genes with them and stuff like that. And what I meant is, rather, few people can claim to have touch millions of people through their work, but someone who worked on GTA V can, even if it's just a tiny part of it.
    - jerf 12y ago
      Here Lies Jerf Probably in at least the 60th Percentile of Parents (Based on a Biased Self-Reporting Survey of his Children) THIS EPITAPH APPROVED BY EKIANJO (No offense intended. The idea tickled me.)
      - ekianjo 12y ago
        haha :) I found that funny.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      >"Great","Wonderful" is all relative Whereas the impact you've made to "millions of people" because of the quality of graphics in a game where pimps shoot people in the streets and beat women up is a subjective accomplishment?
      - ekianjo 12y ago
        Well everything is part of the experience. If something stands out in the game some people are bound to notice it, and no matter the subject of the game (GTA V was brought to light here but it could be any other popular game) you will probably feel responsible for some of the good reviews the game got (and how successful it was market wise). Beyond what you did as a person you were part of a team working on something that many people enjoyed.
      - ncza 12y ago
        GTA is a sandbox game. If violence against virtual women is all you do in it and that concerns you, I would highly recommend seeing a psychologist to find help.
        coldtea 12y ago
        >If violence against virtual women is all you do in it and that concerns you, I would highly recommend seeing a psychologist to find help. Do people really think it's tactful and/or polite to suggest psychiatic treatment to others in a discussion? Especially after mis-reading their whole point? I don't do anything in GTA, have never played the game. The parent comment presented it as a something to be proud about as compared to being a parent/friend/etc. I just wanted to point out it's not some great achievement humanity wise.
atomicfiredoll 12y ago
To be fair, this is why I have no issue when GTA V for PC gets pushed back for the one-hundredth time. Maybe they didn't estimate it well, but hopefully they aren't buying in to the pro-crunch philosophy either. It seems like they're really trying to do it right and the end product will will probably reflect that.
- shortsleeves 12y ago
  http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/86315/Wives_of_Rockstar_San_Diego_employees_have_collected_themselves.php http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/86315...
  - Svip 12y ago
    I don't know, but I don't think Rockstar North and Rockstar San Diego usually operates under the same principles.

jiggy2011 12y ago

If people continue to work in the games industry despite the workload and pay they must be getting something out of it.

serve_yay 12y ago
Indeed, and bless their hearts.
pixl97 12y ago
People commonly work against their own self interests. People commonly vote against their own self interests. People commonly do stupid things.
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  What if you really enjoy working on games that much?
potatolicious 12y ago
People continue to join the games industry - attrition rates are sky high and the vast majority do not last. Perhaps the argument should be reframed as - why is it that despite high-profile and commonly known, and completely batshit insane working conditions, do people still sign up (and then quit the industry entirely)? Are we doing a poor job publicizing these conditions, or are the stories just so horrifying that they become almost outlandishly unbelievable?
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  Everyone I knew who went into games knew what the conditions were before they joined. It's only bad if you don't have a backup plan.
- andrewfong 12y ago
  I'm armchair psychoanalyzing, but I think it's largely because the people entering the games industry are young and it's exceptionally difficult to grasp how terrible something like 80 hour work weeks are until you've been through a few. I mean, it's fairly common for university students to forgo sleep crunching for finals or spend ungodly amounts of time playing their favorite game. Add in "it's not work if you love what you do" and "I'm a special and unique," and you can see how someone might be persuaded to join the games industry in spite of the overwhelming evidence that this is a terrible idea. For what it's worth, this also seems to be true of the legal and medical professions as well. And, more relevantly, startup founders.