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I agree. I understand that people have issues with being retargeted by ad platforms and hate seeing the same ad follow them around, but I don't really seem any

I agree. I understand that people have issues with being retargeted by ad platforms and hate seeing the same ad follow them around, but I don't really seem any downside to users being tracked by 3rd party platforms like Google Analytics. Platforms like GA, don't track first party information and anonymize who you are with a randomly generated ID. This is the only thing that makes your visit unique from the rest. I don't see any harm in providing that information. How do you expect businesses to get insights into what features users like or dislike in their product? I can easily see users of a tool like this complain about a change in one of their favorite products, but by preventing them from any insights how does the business figure that out?

teamhappy 12y ago
> How do you expect businesses to get insights into what features users like or dislike in their product? Collect the data you need yourself. If you don't want to do that (it's really easy) then the data can't be that useful/important to you. Another way would be to, you know, ask your users. What bugs me is that people seem to think it's okay to send my data to another company (usually many, in all kinds of different jurisdictions) without even considering to ask for my consent. That's not nice, is it? You could ask me, on first visit, if I'm okay with you sending my (anonymous) data set to Google. It's really not that hard, is it? Just ask. But you don't. Not only does nobody do that, I'm pretty sure most people don't even consider doing it. That's the most offensive part. So what am I left with? I could stop using the WWW all together, I suppose, or, I could block Google Analytics and the likes before hand, and then, if I feel comfortable doing it, opt in to sharing my data because I like your service and I want it to improve. You and Google don't ask for my consent, but Ghostery does. That's why I (have to) use it. --- bhouston said: "This type of stuff should be opt-in." (blocking GA, that is) I hope the people reading my comment can appreciate the irony. [By the way, the hypothetical guy I'm yelling at — not you] --- One hour later. Can't make this up. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/01/healthcare.gov-sends-personal-data https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/01/healthcare.gov-sends-p... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8920294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8920294
- Karunamon 12y ago
  The reason "nobody does that" is because it's a stupid question that only a tiny minority of people actually care about. It's like the EU cookie law, the net result of which is that a handful of websites are required to post obnoxious warnings. Great. Your solution means even more obnoxious warnings internet wide. "Hey, the person running this website wants to see what its users are doing. Allow Y/N?" This is a future I literally cannot wait to see. </s>
  - teamhappy 12y ago
    Do you really think it's stupid to consider asking a client whether they're okay with you sending their personal data to another company? Just assuming that only a tiny minority of them actually care seems a bit careless. I don't like the EU cookie law either, but that's a completely different thing. The only thing they do have in common is that they make UX designer's lives a bit harder, but that's really no excuse.
    - Karunamon 12y ago
      Considering "their personal data" in this case consists of "what you clicked on my website", no, I don't think that should require any special permission. I think you and I have different definitions of personal data. When I hear that phrase, I think things like addresses, income, contacts, and so forth, but not email or phone numbers (both of which are basically public info), and certainly not what you clicked on my site.
      - nfoz 12y ago
        What someone clicks on websites is extremely sensitive private information. Extremely private sensitive matters of peoples' lives is directly observable in the things they click on websites.
kagebe 12y ago
How about asking your customers, instead of stalking them by default? Even telephone hotlines warn you that the calls may be recorded and give you (at least) a way to opt out. No site ever gave me such an option, but my browser has it - so I'm using it indiscriminately. If you want my trust, give me an (opt in and later opt out) button, limit your tracking as much as you can (time, do not correlate with others, personal info, etc.) and as much information about your tracking as you can and what you use it for. In fact, give me an easy way to see what you have profiled and give me an option to clea(n/r) it. I guess that sounds like hard work. Maybe Piwik can be extended to provide such things? Does it already do some of that?
satori99 12y ago
> I don't really seem any downside to users being tracked by 3rd party platforms like Google Analytics. Platforms like GA, don't track first party information and anonymize who you are with a randomly generated ID. But thats not your call to make for your users if they happen to have a different opinion on the topic. Google is an advertising company. It is not unreasonable to not want to tracked at all by advertising companies. Neither they nor you have any sort of right to this information. It sucks for you that it is harder to grow your business. But since when has that ever been easy?

teamhappy 12y ago

> How do you expect businesses to get insights into what features users like or dislike in their product? Collect the data you need yourself. If you don't want to do that (it's really easy) then the data can't be that useful/important to you. Another way would be to, you know, ask your users. What bugs me is that people seem to think it's okay to send my data to another company (usually many, in all kinds of different jurisdictions) without even considering to ask for my consent. That's not nice, is it? You could ask me, on first visit, if I'm okay with you sending my (anonymous) data set to Google. It's really not that hard, is it? Just ask. But you don't. Not only does nobody do that, I'm pretty sure most people don't even consider doing it. That's the most offensive part. So what am I left with? I could stop using the WWW all together, I suppose, or, I could block Google Analytics and the likes before hand, and then, if I feel comfortable doing it, opt in to sharing my data because I like your service and I want it to improve. You and Google don't ask for my consent, but Ghostery does. That's why I (have to) use it. --- bhouston said: "This type of stuff should be opt-in." (blocking GA, that is) I hope the people reading my comment can appreciate the irony. [By the way, the hypothetical guy I'm yelling at — not you] --- One hour later. Can't make this up. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/01/healthcare.gov-sends-personal-data https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/01/healthcare.gov-sends-p... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8920294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8920294

Karunamon 12y ago
The reason "nobody does that" is because it's a stupid question that only a tiny minority of people actually care about. It's like the EU cookie law, the net result of which is that a handful of websites are required to post obnoxious warnings. Great. Your solution means even more obnoxious warnings internet wide. "Hey, the person running this website wants to see what its users are doing. Allow Y/N?" This is a future I literally cannot wait to see. </s>
- teamhappy 12y ago
  Do you really think it's stupid to consider asking a client whether they're okay with you sending their personal data to another company? Just assuming that only a tiny minority of them actually care seems a bit careless. I don't like the EU cookie law either, but that's a completely different thing. The only thing they do have in common is that they make UX designer's lives a bit harder, but that's really no excuse.
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    Considering "their personal data" in this case consists of "what you clicked on my website", no, I don't think that should require any special permission. I think you and I have different definitions of personal data. When I hear that phrase, I think things like addresses, income, contacts, and so forth, but not email or phone numbers (both of which are basically public info), and certainly not what you clicked on my site.
    - nfoz 12y ago
      What someone clicks on websites is extremely sensitive private information. Extremely private sensitive matters of peoples' lives is directly observable in the things they click on websites.

kagebe 12y ago

How about asking your customers, instead of stalking them by default? Even telephone hotlines warn you that the calls may be recorded and give you (at least) a way to opt out. No site ever gave me such an option, but my browser has it - so I'm using it indiscriminately. If you want my trust, give me an (opt in and later opt out) button, limit your tracking as much as you can (time, do not correlate with others, personal info, etc.) and as much information about your tracking as you can and what you use it for. In fact, give me an easy way to see what you have profiled and give me an option to clea(n/r) it. I guess that sounds like hard work. Maybe Piwik can be extended to provide such things? Does it already do some of that?

satori99 12y ago

> I don't really seem any downside to users being tracked by 3rd party platforms like Google Analytics. Platforms like GA, don't track first party information and anonymize who you are with a randomly generated ID. But thats not your call to make for your users if they happen to have a different opinion on the topic. Google is an advertising company. It is not unreasonable to not want to tracked at all by advertising companies. Neither they nor you have any sort of right to this information. It sucks for you that it is harder to grow your business. But since when has that ever been easy?