5 ms·

Yet somehow every single metric about human happiness, life, security, etc has massively risen up since we've given up on theocracy or strong theological aspect

Yet somehow every single metric about human happiness, life, security, etc has massively risen up since we've given up on theocracy or strong theological aspects in government and society in general. The countries that still have these beliefs are middle east hellholes that are exporting terrorism around the world over cartooning.

nemo 12y ago
Why do you assume the nun is a theocrat? Religion is still fairly strong in peaceful secular states and hasn't dragged them into hellholes. That some religious fundamentalists hold odious beliefs doesn't mean that the nun who wrote the letter does. For all you know she's some kind of liberation theology type who doesn't subscribe to anything you've generalized about. Religions are very complex things, simplistic black-and-white thinking and generalizing about them doesn't really help anything at all, nor does it promote anything beneficial to humanity, it just empowers fundamentalists by supporting their ignorant simplistic black-and-white thinking about religion and science.
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  >Why do you assume the nun is a theocrat? Please show me evidence that a plurality of catholic nuns want legalized abortion. Otherwise I will continue to assume they don't that via basic common sense, current catholic theology, experience, and history.
  - nemo 12y ago
    Opposition to abortion, while virtually always misguided, isn't theocracy.
  - nsxwolf 12y ago
    Do you think pro-life atheists like Nat Hentoff are theocrats?
  - PhasmaFelis 12y ago
    You know the guy who invented the birth control pill was a devout Catholic? Catholic nuns in particular, BTW, are somewhat infamous for butting heads with power structures both in and outside the Church, from a progressive standpoint--birth control, sex work, women's rights, and GLBT rights are a handful of issues that have been known to come up. It seems to come from working directly with the affected people on the ground. And of course many nuns do the same thing and remain staunchly conservative. People are people. But if you think that you can accurately pigeonhole anyone with different beliefs than yours into a narrow little box, you're no better than the bogeyman you're fighting.
    - zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
      > You know the guy who invented the birth control pill was a devout Catholic? Your point is irrelevant to the discussion but I'm curious. Do you have a source for this? Greg Pincus' Wikipedia entry says absolutely nothing about his religious affiliation.
      - rhythmvs 12y ago
        http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Peeters#Betekenis http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Peeters#Betekenis
      - PhasmaFelis 12y ago
        > Your point is irrelevant to the discussion Right. If it was relevant, it might call your closely-held stereotypes into question. That seems ironic. Also: John Rock, co-inventor of the Pill, along with Pincus and Chang. Interesting, and unfortunately Quixotic, character. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rock_(American_scientist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rock_(American_scientist) My apologies, I should have said "co-inventor."
nsxwolf 12y ago
Yes like all those massive networks of Catholic suicide bomber nuns.
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  Certainly you're not familiar with Northern Ireland. Assuming we're limiting to Xtianity, which I sure am not.
  - nemo 12y ago
    "Certainly you're not familiar with Northern Ireland." Someone clearly is unfamiliar, though I think you should by pointing to yourself rather than others.
- zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
  History is replete with terror acts perpetrated by the Catholic Church (the Inquisition, the Crusades, ...).
  - nsxwolf 12y ago
    Ok. Where is the Catholic terrorism these days? I can't remember the last time I heard a homily at Mass preaching violence. It's been awhile.
    - zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
      It happens on a regular basis around abortion clinics (the latest victim was Dr Tiller just a few years ago). I am tempted to say that the horrors that Mother Teresa inflicted in her clinics would also qualify as terrorism, but that's probably more open to interpretation (well, the horrors are not open to interpretation, whether it should be called terrorism can arguably be).
    - evgen 12y ago
      Have you never heard of the IRA or Basque separatists? These days most terrorists in the US & EU are protestants, but the Catholics have not given up their attempt to wrest first place from these upstart prods...

nemo 12y ago

Why do you assume the nun is a theocrat? Religion is still fairly strong in peaceful secular states and hasn't dragged them into hellholes. That some religious fundamentalists hold odious beliefs doesn't mean that the nun who wrote the letter does. For all you know she's some kind of liberation theology type who doesn't subscribe to anything you've generalized about. Religions are very complex things, simplistic black-and-white thinking and generalizing about them doesn't really help anything at all, nor does it promote anything beneficial to humanity, it just empowers fundamentalists by supporting their ignorant simplistic black-and-white thinking about religion and science.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago
>Why do you assume the nun is a theocrat? Please show me evidence that a plurality of catholic nuns want legalized abortion. Otherwise I will continue to assume they don't that via basic common sense, current catholic theology, experience, and history.
- nemo 12y ago
  Opposition to abortion, while virtually always misguided, isn't theocracy.
- nsxwolf 12y ago
  Do you think pro-life atheists like Nat Hentoff are theocrats?
- PhasmaFelis 12y ago
  You know the guy who invented the birth control pill was a devout Catholic? Catholic nuns in particular, BTW, are somewhat infamous for butting heads with power structures both in and outside the Church, from a progressive standpoint--birth control, sex work, women's rights, and GLBT rights are a handful of issues that have been known to come up. It seems to come from working directly with the affected people on the ground. And of course many nuns do the same thing and remain staunchly conservative. People are people. But if you think that you can accurately pigeonhole anyone with different beliefs than yours into a narrow little box, you're no better than the bogeyman you're fighting.
  - zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
    > You know the guy who invented the birth control pill was a devout Catholic? Your point is irrelevant to the discussion but I'm curious. Do you have a source for this? Greg Pincus' Wikipedia entry says absolutely nothing about his religious affiliation.
    - rhythmvs 12y ago
      http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Peeters#Betekenis http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Peeters#Betekenis
    - PhasmaFelis 12y ago
      > Your point is irrelevant to the discussion Right. If it was relevant, it might call your closely-held stereotypes into question. That seems ironic. Also: John Rock, co-inventor of the Pill, along with Pincus and Chang. Interesting, and unfortunately Quixotic, character. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rock_(American_scientist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rock_(American_scientist) My apologies, I should have said "co-inventor."

nsxwolf 12y ago

Yes like all those massive networks of Catholic suicide bomber nuns.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago
Certainly you're not familiar with Northern Ireland. Assuming we're limiting to Xtianity, which I sure am not.
- nemo 12y ago
  "Certainly you're not familiar with Northern Ireland." Someone clearly is unfamiliar, though I think you should by pointing to yourself rather than others.
zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
History is replete with terror acts perpetrated by the Catholic Church (the Inquisition, the Crusades, ...).
- nsxwolf 12y ago
  Ok. Where is the Catholic terrorism these days? I can't remember the last time I heard a homily at Mass preaching violence. It's been awhile.
  - zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
    It happens on a regular basis around abortion clinics (the latest victim was Dr Tiller just a few years ago). I am tempted to say that the horrors that Mother Teresa inflicted in her clinics would also qualify as terrorism, but that's probably more open to interpretation (well, the horrors are not open to interpretation, whether it should be called terrorism can arguably be).
  - evgen 12y ago
    Have you never heard of the IRA or Basque separatists? These days most terrorists in the US & EU are protestants, but the Catholics have not given up their attempt to wrest first place from these upstart prods...