4 ms·

Yahoo and the Objectification of Women

10 points by Prefect 17y ago

quant18 17y ago
Yeah, seems these days there is more of a backlash in Asia against using scantily-clad female models this way for promotional purposes of unrelated products ... few months back there was similar noise in HK about female models at book fairs: http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?sid=24568241&art_id=84851&con_type=1&pp_cat=30 http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?sid=24568241&#...
xiaoma 17y ago
I didn't see much of any backlash here in Taiwan. You have to consider that models are present at pretty much any tech related exhibition, be it Acer, Sony or whoever. There are also still regular religious festivals based on the Chinese calendar that involve naked women dancing on floats. You don't see them in Taipei city, but in the southern part of Taiwan they aren't uncommon. This article has two parts-- someone flipping out about something that's normal in Taiwan, and then a list of dire statistics about the US. It doesn't make much sense. Throwing in the ".69 cents on the dollar claim" that ignores hours worked, experience and profession eliminated what little credibility remained from the rant at the top of the article.
- praetorian 17y ago
  Corporations don't sponsor religious festivals. Models are present at US events, I think the uproar is about the lap dancing, etc.. Not sure why you can't link the general attitude towards women in the technology space and the lack of women in the technology space. People (maybe not you) were uncomfortable with what was going on. The .69/dollar claim is as old as time, cited all over the place. Has nothing to do with any external factor like hours, experience, etc.: it demonstrates that all other things being equal a woman is paid less for the same work. Don't question my credibility when you don't understand the foundational facts.
  - xiaoma 17y ago
    "The .69/dollar claim is as old as time, cited all over the place. Has nothing to do with any external factor like hours, experience, etc.: it demonstrates that all other things being equal a woman is paid less for the same work." That's just not true. That statistic ignores all other factors such as hours of work per week, experience, danger, and a host of other factors. It quite literally compares the salary of people with years of experience who are working 60 hours a week directly with new hires of the same job title who are working 40 hours a week. It lumps them all together. The 76 cents (or 72 cents or X cents) on the dollar myth has been debunked very thoroughly, though it still enjoys popularity amongst feminists. Study after study which has actually controlled for factors such as experience, hours worked, travel required, etc have found very little pay disparity. There are a number of more forceful articles on the subject on BW, the Cato Institute and other similar sites. This NCPA article is a gentler explanation of The Wage Gap Myth: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba392 http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba392
    - Prefect 17y ago
      Based on your analysis, that statistic does not hold up and will be removed from the article. We'll credit you on why its being removed. Thank you for taking the time to educate me on this.
plinkplonk 17y ago
Funny how American morality/ideology is being applied to condemn something (normal as per the Taiwanese) happening in Taiwan. As someone mentioned in Reddit, if non Americans were to object to some American custom, say people hugging in public, Americans would (be justified) in flipping them off. I am sick and tired of people telling other people how they ought to live to satisfy some bullshit political correctness agenda.
- praetorian 17y ago
  Hardly comes to the level of trivial political correctness. Let's take the American custom of bombing other countries. Would you feel justified objecting to that? Is it possible that you can see something as wrong, in your opinion, when its not happening in your immediate geographic area? Reading papers from the women's movement in Taiwan, this doesn't appear to be completely accepted out there either. But the article doesn't even go there. There is no general condemnation of this activity in Taiwan, frankly we don't care that much. What's objected to are the actions of an American company in Taiwan. Sorry, no agenda here, no axe to grind with Yahoo. Yahoo is an American company (like it or not), and takes ownership of anything it slaps its brand on abroad.
  - DanielBMarkham 17y ago
    Let's take the American custom of bombing other countries You really believe that Americans regularly bomb other countries as a matter of custom? Or was that just a bit of hyperbole? 'Cause it makes your entire argument sound tilted. I've never, ever heard a politician or political commentator recommend bombing simply because it is a custom, like shaking hands or putting up Christmas trees.
    - Prefect 17y ago
      Hyperbole, as you say. Taken out of context it means nothing. Taken in context it means that as an American I acknowledge our actions around the world aren't always right and don't always make sense. But this doesn't take away from the validity of the U.S. point of view in this case. Too often arguments bring in outside factors with generalized phrases: "Americans are always trying to control what happens abroad" and other such irrelevant phrases. Put another way, if you accept that conference dancers are Taiwanese custom, you should also consider accepting that Americans would view this in a poor light, and object not that it happens in Taiwan, but that a U.S. company supports it.
jdminhbg 17y ago
Credit to Yahoo for just apologizing and not blaming their Taiwanese subsidiary when they probably had nothing to do with it, but... they probably had nothing to do with it. That it happened in Taiwan doesn't make it right, but it does mean that it has basically nothing to do with the gender balance of computer-related fields in the US.
- praetorian 17y ago
  Yahoo is responsible for where and on what it slaps its brand, IMO. Yes, would have been good to have some Taiwanese stats (don't see any), so point taken.

10 points by Prefect 17y ago

Yeah, seems these days there is more of a backlash in Asia against using scantily-clad female models this way for promotional purposes of unrelated products ... few months back there was similar noise in HK about female models at book fairs: http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?sid=24568241&art_id=84851&con_type=1&pp_cat=30 http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?sid=24568241&#...

xiaoma 17y ago

I didn't see much of any backlash here in Taiwan. You have to consider that models are present at pretty much any tech related exhibition, be it Acer, Sony or whoever. There are also still regular religious festivals based on the Chinese calendar that involve naked women dancing on floats. You don't see them in Taipei city, but in the southern part of Taiwan they aren't uncommon. This article has two parts-- someone flipping out about something that's normal in Taiwan, and then a list of dire statistics about the US. It doesn't make much sense. Throwing in the ".69 cents on the dollar claim" that ignores hours worked, experience and profession eliminated what little credibility remained from the rant at the top of the article.

praetorian 17y ago
Corporations don't sponsor religious festivals. Models are present at US events, I think the uproar is about the lap dancing, etc.. Not sure why you can't link the general attitude towards women in the technology space and the lack of women in the technology space. People (maybe not you) were uncomfortable with what was going on. The .69/dollar claim is as old as time, cited all over the place. Has nothing to do with any external factor like hours, experience, etc.: it demonstrates that all other things being equal a woman is paid less for the same work. Don't question my credibility when you don't understand the foundational facts.
- xiaoma 17y ago
  "The .69/dollar claim is as old as time, cited all over the place. Has nothing to do with any external factor like hours, experience, etc.: it demonstrates that all other things being equal a woman is paid less for the same work." That's just not true. That statistic ignores all other factors such as hours of work per week, experience, danger, and a host of other factors. It quite literally compares the salary of people with years of experience who are working 60 hours a week directly with new hires of the same job title who are working 40 hours a week. It lumps them all together. The 76 cents (or 72 cents or X cents) on the dollar myth has been debunked very thoroughly, though it still enjoys popularity amongst feminists. Study after study which has actually controlled for factors such as experience, hours worked, travel required, etc have found very little pay disparity. There are a number of more forceful articles on the subject on BW, the Cato Institute and other similar sites. This NCPA article is a gentler explanation of The Wage Gap Myth: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba392 http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba392
  - Prefect 17y ago
    Based on your analysis, that statistic does not hold up and will be removed from the article. We'll credit you on why its being removed. Thank you for taking the time to educate me on this.

plinkplonk 17y ago

Funny how American morality/ideology is being applied to condemn something (normal as per the Taiwanese) happening in Taiwan. As someone mentioned in Reddit, if non Americans were to object to some American custom, say people hugging in public, Americans would (be justified) in flipping them off. I am sick and tired of people telling other people how they ought to live to satisfy some bullshit political correctness agenda.

praetorian 17y ago
Hardly comes to the level of trivial political correctness. Let's take the American custom of bombing other countries. Would you feel justified objecting to that? Is it possible that you can see something as wrong, in your opinion, when its not happening in your immediate geographic area? Reading papers from the women's movement in Taiwan, this doesn't appear to be completely accepted out there either. But the article doesn't even go there. There is no general condemnation of this activity in Taiwan, frankly we don't care that much. What's objected to are the actions of an American company in Taiwan. Sorry, no agenda here, no axe to grind with Yahoo. Yahoo is an American company (like it or not), and takes ownership of anything it slaps its brand on abroad.
- DanielBMarkham 17y ago
  Let's take the American custom of bombing other countries You really believe that Americans regularly bomb other countries as a matter of custom? Or was that just a bit of hyperbole? 'Cause it makes your entire argument sound tilted. I've never, ever heard a politician or political commentator recommend bombing simply because it is a custom, like shaking hands or putting up Christmas trees.
  - Prefect 17y ago
    Hyperbole, as you say. Taken out of context it means nothing. Taken in context it means that as an American I acknowledge our actions around the world aren't always right and don't always make sense. But this doesn't take away from the validity of the U.S. point of view in this case. Too often arguments bring in outside factors with generalized phrases: "Americans are always trying to control what happens abroad" and other such irrelevant phrases. Put another way, if you accept that conference dancers are Taiwanese custom, you should also consider accepting that Americans would view this in a poor light, and object not that it happens in Taiwan, but that a U.S. company supports it.

jdminhbg 17y ago

Credit to Yahoo for just apologizing and not blaming their Taiwanese subsidiary when they probably had nothing to do with it, but... they probably had nothing to do with it. That it happened in Taiwan doesn't make it right, but it does mean that it has basically nothing to do with the gender balance of computer-related fields in the US.

praetorian 17y ago
Yahoo is responsible for where and on what it slaps its brand, IMO. Yes, would have been good to have some Taiwanese stats (don't see any), so point taken.