7 ms·

Plenty of reasons for merchants to accept BTC, still not a lot of reasons for consumers..

CyberDildonics 12y ago
Have you ever had your credit card stolen? Have you ever had it frozen and not been able to spend your own money? These things happen constantly but never happen when paying with bitcoin. The more you have to deal with banks the more of a breathe of fresh air it is to pay in btc. Credit card fraud is incredibly rampant and the security measures in place by banks and sites is so over the top it becomes difficult to even use them. Use ghostery? Your transaction won't go through with an unknown error. Use a VPN? Your transaction won't go through with an unknown error. Paying from a different computer? A different IP? Using a different address? All these things are a recipe for being on hold with your bank for 45 minutes when you all you wanted to do was order $50 of stuff from NewEgg.
- gst 12y ago
  I use my credit card a lot for all sorts of things. In the past 3 years I can only remember my card being rejected once. An when this happened I immediately got an automated call that allowed me to confirm my transaction (so I was still able to use that card to pay). My card was also stolen once (someone copied the magnetic stripe). Once this someone did a transaction on the other side of the country I immediatelly got a call from Amex which proceed to refund that transaction and to send me a new card. IIRC a replacement card arrived in the mail on the next day. In the mean time I just used my debit card to pay for things.
- hurin 12y ago
  You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. The consumer isn't responsible for Credit Card fraud - if it's stolen my bank reimburses me for transactions I did not commit. If bitcoins are stolen you get what? Specifically the lack of fraud protection is obviously advantageous for merchants (who often are the ones, not the banks, paying out in the case of fraud) but for the consumer its distinctly worse.
  - knocte 12y ago
    Bitcoins can't be stolen. Period. A different thing is that you may suck at protecting your operating system.
    - sukilot 12y ago
      As a percentage of total money supply, mtgox was the biggest theft (or loss, there is no differene to victims) of currency in modern history.
      - knocte 12y ago
        Mtgox != Bitcoin For all intents and purposes, people having money in mtgox was the equivalent of people holding money in a crappy (security or fraud-wise) bank.
        Amezarak 12y ago
        The difference is that accounts in banks are insured by federal guarantees. Bitcoin banks are not.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - acdha 12y ago
      What an amusingly incorrect display of pedantry. Check your convenient local dictionary and you'll find something like this: 1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/steal http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/steal) Note that the definition does not take into consideration whether you think the victim should have done more to protect themselves, just as the fact that every year thousands of criminals are successfully prosecuted for stealing even in cases where homeowners did not have dogs, 24x7 security guards, etc.
      - knocte 12y ago
- ObviousScience 12y ago
  Have you ever had your bitcoins stolen? I'd rather have my credit card stolen, which I'm not liable for if I report it promptly, instead of just being out of the funds permanently.
  - aianus 12y ago
    The difference is that I don't go around sharing my bitcoin private keys with Target like I'm forced to do with my credit card details. FWIW I've never had any BTC stolen but I've had multiple credit cards canceled by my bank 'for my protection'.
    - Nursie 12y ago
      Actually, as the USA will finally move to EMV over the next year or so, no, you don't share your private key with target.
  - wuliwong 12y ago
    Obviously if I'm keeping my bitcoins in a private wallet on my computer and the computer is stolen, then I they are probably gone, like cash. But, I would assume that it is possible to have some insurance? If I had my house insured and cash was stolen, I could be reimbursed by the insurance, correct? I would assume the same thing could be done with bitcoin? And what about a situation like with Coinbase, if they are "hacked" or whatever, isn't it at least theoretically possible that the bitcoins could be insured? I think just as bitcoin fanatics are overzealous about the enhanced security of bitcoin, the other side can get a little short-sighted by not imagining any scenario where your bitcoin deposits are insured in some way.
- vectorpush 12y ago
  > Have you ever had your credit card stolen? I have. It was pretty inconvenient, but after a call to the bank, the stolen card was cancelled and the unauthorized transactions were reversed. If your bitcoins are stolen, the money is gone forever without any possibility of recovering the funds. > Have you ever had it frozen and not been able to spend your own money? No, that's never happened to me. I have once had a very large transaction automatically declined in the past, which was also inconvenient at the time, but the bank called me about it within 60 seconds of the transaction and I was able to resolve the issue right there. Reflecting on it later, I decided I liked the fact that my bank sought additional verification before authorizing a very large and unusual transaction. > Credit card fraud is incredibly rampant and the security measures in place by banks and sites is so over the top it becomes difficult to even use them. This is not an issue for me or anyone I know. I've never had a bank card payment rejected because of ghostery or an IP address or my VPN. Besides, even if I did, there is no reason why a business could not use identical signals for rejecting a bitcoin payment, especially since the consequences of bitcoin fraud or much more severe for the consumer. For the vast majority of consumers, bitcoin as currency, offers almost nothing in the way of advantages over bank cards; that's just the reality. This isn't to say that bitcoin is useless or that banks always have their customer's best interest at heart, but there's really no denying the fact that banks are safer and more convenient than bitcoin for most people.
- rhino369 12y ago
  >Have you ever had your credit card stolen? At least 3 times. It didn't cost me a cent. Chase sent a new one over 2 day air. Have you ever reversed a bitcoin charge because of a fraudulent seller?
mnisjk2 12y ago
Exactly. I still use plastic even when btc is an option. Credit cards are simply better for the consumer (instantaneous transaction, chargeback/dispute and points)
- eblanshey 12y ago
  The NFC-enabled bitcoin wallets are coming. It won't get easier than that.
  - etchalon 12y ago
    I believe they're already here. And it will get easier than that. It's called Apple Pay.
    - tonyhb 12y ago
      Guess what was already here? Bitcoin NFC and Google Wallet.
      - etchalon 12y ago
        …yeah that's what I was saying. Other than the last part, which was meant as, "Apply Pay is easier to use than Bitcoin." Cause man, it is.
- knocte 12y ago
  >Credit cards are simply better for the consumer This suggests you haven't tried paying with bitcoin. Sure, you lose all those things you get with creditcards, but for me some advantages that bitcoin offers over credit cards (and yes I'm a consumer too) are more important, such us: - I'm not afraid that any of the providers where I have bought things gets hacked, because my identity and payment details is not kept by them. - Paying with bitcoin is so much easier, I don't need to copy stupid numbers from a card with my keyboard ever again. - I don't need to check my bank account from time to time to see if I had charges that don't correspond to things I didn't buy. - I'm not afraid of bank commissions that especially take place when I pay for things abroad. These are the little things that will make a universal-worldwide-digital-coin succeed. Could be that this coin is bitcoin, or other one.

Have you ever had your credit card stolen? Have you ever had it frozen and not been able to spend your own money? These things happen constantly but never happen when paying with bitcoin. The more you have to deal with banks the more of a breathe of fresh air it is to pay in btc. Credit card fraud is incredibly rampant and the security measures in place by banks and sites is so over the top it becomes difficult to even use them. Use ghostery? Your transaction won't go through with an unknown error. Use a VPN? Your transaction won't go through with an unknown error. Paying from a different computer? A different IP? Using a different address? All these things are a recipe for being on hold with your bank for 45 minutes when you all you wanted to do was order $50 of stuff from NewEgg.

gst 12y ago
I use my credit card a lot for all sorts of things. In the past 3 years I can only remember my card being rejected once. An when this happened I immediately got an automated call that allowed me to confirm my transaction (so I was still able to use that card to pay). My card was also stolen once (someone copied the magnetic stripe). Once this someone did a transaction on the other side of the country I immediatelly got a call from Amex which proceed to refund that transaction and to send me a new card. IIRC a replacement card arrived in the mail on the next day. In the mean time I just used my debit card to pay for things.
hurin 12y ago
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. The consumer isn't responsible for Credit Card fraud - if it's stolen my bank reimburses me for transactions I did not commit. If bitcoins are stolen you get what? Specifically the lack of fraud protection is obviously advantageous for merchants (who often are the ones, not the banks, paying out in the case of fraud) but for the consumer its distinctly worse.
- knocte 12y ago
  Bitcoins can't be stolen. Period. A different thing is that you may suck at protecting your operating system.
  - sukilot 12y ago
    As a percentage of total money supply, mtgox was the biggest theft (or loss, there is no differene to victims) of currency in modern history.
    - knocte 12y ago
      Mtgox != Bitcoin For all intents and purposes, people having money in mtgox was the equivalent of people holding money in a crappy (security or fraud-wise) bank.
      - Amezarak 12y ago
        The difference is that accounts in banks are insured by federal guarantees. Bitcoin banks are not.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - acdha 12y ago
    What an amusingly incorrect display of pedantry. Check your convenient local dictionary and you'll find something like this: 1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/steal http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/steal) Note that the definition does not take into consideration whether you think the victim should have done more to protect themselves, just as the fact that every year thousands of criminals are successfully prosecuted for stealing even in cases where homeowners did not have dogs, 24x7 security guards, etc.
    - knocte 12y ago
ObviousScience 12y ago
Have you ever had your bitcoins stolen? I'd rather have my credit card stolen, which I'm not liable for if I report it promptly, instead of just being out of the funds permanently.
- aianus 12y ago
  The difference is that I don't go around sharing my bitcoin private keys with Target like I'm forced to do with my credit card details. FWIW I've never had any BTC stolen but I've had multiple credit cards canceled by my bank 'for my protection'.
  - Nursie 12y ago
    Actually, as the USA will finally move to EMV over the next year or so, no, you don't share your private key with target.
- wuliwong 12y ago
  Obviously if I'm keeping my bitcoins in a private wallet on my computer and the computer is stolen, then I they are probably gone, like cash. But, I would assume that it is possible to have some insurance? If I had my house insured and cash was stolen, I could be reimbursed by the insurance, correct? I would assume the same thing could be done with bitcoin? And what about a situation like with Coinbase, if they are "hacked" or whatever, isn't it at least theoretically possible that the bitcoins could be insured? I think just as bitcoin fanatics are overzealous about the enhanced security of bitcoin, the other side can get a little short-sighted by not imagining any scenario where your bitcoin deposits are insured in some way.
vectorpush 12y ago
> Have you ever had your credit card stolen? I have. It was pretty inconvenient, but after a call to the bank, the stolen card was cancelled and the unauthorized transactions were reversed. If your bitcoins are stolen, the money is gone forever without any possibility of recovering the funds. > Have you ever had it frozen and not been able to spend your own money? No, that's never happened to me. I have once had a very large transaction automatically declined in the past, which was also inconvenient at the time, but the bank called me about it within 60 seconds of the transaction and I was able to resolve the issue right there. Reflecting on it later, I decided I liked the fact that my bank sought additional verification before authorizing a very large and unusual transaction. > Credit card fraud is incredibly rampant and the security measures in place by banks and sites is so over the top it becomes difficult to even use them. This is not an issue for me or anyone I know. I've never had a bank card payment rejected because of ghostery or an IP address or my VPN. Besides, even if I did, there is no reason why a business could not use identical signals for rejecting a bitcoin payment, especially since the consequences of bitcoin fraud or much more severe for the consumer. For the vast majority of consumers, bitcoin as currency, offers almost nothing in the way of advantages over bank cards; that's just the reality. This isn't to say that bitcoin is useless or that banks always have their customer's best interest at heart, but there's really no denying the fact that banks are safer and more convenient than bitcoin for most people.
rhino369 12y ago
>Have you ever had your credit card stolen? At least 3 times. It didn't cost me a cent. Chase sent a new one over 2 day air. Have you ever reversed a bitcoin charge because of a fraudulent seller?

mnisjk2 12y ago

Exactly. I still use plastic even when btc is an option. Credit cards are simply better for the consumer (instantaneous transaction, chargeback/dispute and points)

eblanshey 12y ago
The NFC-enabled bitcoin wallets are coming. It won't get easier than that.
- etchalon 12y ago
  I believe they're already here. And it will get easier than that. It's called Apple Pay.
  - tonyhb 12y ago
    Guess what was already here? Bitcoin NFC and Google Wallet.
    - etchalon 12y ago
      …yeah that's what I was saying. Other than the last part, which was meant as, "Apply Pay is easier to use than Bitcoin." Cause man, it is.
knocte 12y ago
>Credit cards are simply better for the consumer This suggests you haven't tried paying with bitcoin. Sure, you lose all those things you get with creditcards, but for me some advantages that bitcoin offers over credit cards (and yes I'm a consumer too) are more important, such us: - I'm not afraid that any of the providers where I have bought things gets hacked, because my identity and payment details is not kept by them. - Paying with bitcoin is so much easier, I don't need to copy stupid numbers from a card with my keyboard ever again. - I don't need to check my bank account from time to time to see if I had charges that don't correspond to things I didn't buy. - I'm not afraid of bank commissions that especially take place when I pay for things abroad. These are the little things that will make a universal-worldwide-digital-coin succeed. Could be that this coin is bitcoin, or other one.