4 ms·

I wonder about the legal aspects of this. I guess one cannot come from Asia/Europe to the USA on a tourist visum and legally telework from there. Other countrie

by Luyt 12y ago

I wonder about the legal aspects of this. I guess one cannot come from Asia/Europe to the USA on a tourist visum and legally telework from there. Other countries seem to have trouble with foreign teleworkers, too. Wasn't there an article about a police raid on a Thai coworking space, a while ago? But I guess it's allright if you're from Sweden and travel to Spain to enjoy the Mediterrean during the day and work in the evening (both countries are in the EU).

ashconnor 12y ago
It's totally illegal to work in most of South East Asia on a tourist visa [1]. It used to be easier to work in Cambodia but that's changed recently [2]. [1] - http://ashleyconnor.co.uk/blog/2014/09/07/the-digital-nomad-and-immigration-law/ http://ashleyconnor.co.uk/blog/2014/09/07/the-digital-nomad-... [2] - https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/work-permits-now-required-for-foreigners-67224/ https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/work-permits-now-required...
peteretep 12y ago
> I guess one cannot come from Asia/Europe to the USA on a > tourist visa and legally telework from there. Other > countries seem to have trouble with foreign teleworkers, > too. I'm not aware of any country taking enforcement action, or even attempting too, as long as you're not disguising employment in the host country. Who benefits, seriously? Make sure you're legally resident somewhere where all your business activities are being conducted via, and that you're paying tax there. Who wants to be the first country to say that tourists can't check their work email while on holiday? > Wasn't there an article about a police raid on a Thai coworking > space, a while ago? Yes, but it came down to a misunderstanding about what was going on there. Chiang Mai police later further clarified that they're fine with tourists tapping away on their laptops: http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366 http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366
- joncrocks 12y ago
  > as long as you're not disguising employment in the host country Indeed, and they may well ask you if your trip is personal or related to your work. And deny you entry if it is work related and you don't have the appropriate paperwork.
- ashconnor 12y ago
  That's true, but they recently deported a few Russian travel guides in Pattaya despite saying that they would allow them to work a few months before. The law is really flexible in Thailand. What's unenforced today could be enforced tomorrow.
  - peteretep 12y ago
    > they recently deported a few Russian travel guides in > Pattaya Which - even if they gave it a nod - is a completely different situation. > The law is really flexible in Thailand Which assuming you aren't destitute, can sometimes work in your favour... If you're in Bangkok, drop me a line and let's grab a coffee.
    - saryant 12y ago
      The people doing this also aren't likely doing visa runs, they'll just come in under the 30-day visa free entry and then go home once it expires. Much harder to get caught that way. Though I did read rumors of Thai police cracking down on a coworking center in Phuket.
- gambiting 12y ago
  Upon entering any country with visa requirements you are asked - what is the purpose of your visit? If you answer "work" then you need a work visa, simple as that.
  - peteretep 12y ago
    This is completely untrue in practice, without resorting to maximum pedantry. For example, when entering the US for a business trip under ESTA, you will be asked at customs for the purpose of your trip. If you say "I'm here to see some clients for business, and I plan to spend all my free time answering email and catching up on work", you will still gain entry, even though you plan to PERFORM WORK IN THE USA. This is also true of almost every visa-on-arrival country. You are also making the mistake of thinking that governments are monolithic in caring about these things. Border control only care about if you're planning to overstay your welcome, and care about employment only as a precursor to that. The relevant labour department cares about if you're going to seek employment while you're there, but generally they're not present at the border. The tax authorities don't really care about either of those, but want to know if you'll have income arising in their jurisdiction while they're there, and their definition of "arising" will stretch to many arcane pages. These can be competing goals, and tax departments/ministries will often make sure their data can't be accessed by other departments because they want to encourage illegal immigrants to pay tax...
    - gambiting 12y ago
      I'm 99% certain you are wrong, at least when it comes to visits to the USA. If you were granted a B1(tourist) visa, you almost definitely can't say to the border guard that "I'm here to see some clients for business, and I plan to spend all my free time answering email and catching up on work", because this is what the B2(business) visa is for - it doesn't allow you to work - as in, become employed - in the States, but it allows you to do everything you've just listed. It's a specific visa used for the purposes of conducting "business" - and working remotely almost certainly classifies as "business". So to re-iterate: if you've been granted a Tourist visa, but your reason to visit is conducting business, then yeah, you will be denied entry to USA.
Morgawr 12y ago
Even within the EU it can be a total pain to set up the proper taxing documents and everything. It's certainly simpler, but not that immediate, you still need an infrastructure to support it.

by Luyt 12y ago

ashconnor 12y ago

It's totally illegal to work in most of South East Asia on a tourist visa [1]. It used to be easier to work in Cambodia but that's changed recently [2]. [1] - http://ashleyconnor.co.uk/blog/2014/09/07/the-digital-nomad-and-immigration-law/ http://ashleyconnor.co.uk/blog/2014/09/07/the-digital-nomad-... [2] - https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/work-permits-now-required-for-foreigners-67224/ https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/work-permits-now-required...

peteretep 12y ago

> I guess one cannot come from Asia/Europe to the USA on a > tourist visa and legally telework from there. Other > countries seem to have trouble with foreign teleworkers, > too. I'm not aware of any country taking enforcement action, or even attempting too, as long as you're not disguising employment in the host country. Who benefits, seriously? Make sure you're legally resident somewhere where all your business activities are being conducted via, and that you're paying tax there. Who wants to be the first country to say that tourists can't check their work email while on holiday? > Wasn't there an article about a police raid on a Thai coworking > space, a while ago? Yes, but it came down to a misunderstanding about what was going on there. Chiang Mai police later further clarified that they're fine with tourists tapping away on their laptops: http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366 http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366

joncrocks 12y ago
> as long as you're not disguising employment in the host country Indeed, and they may well ask you if your trip is personal or related to your work. And deny you entry if it is work related and you don't have the appropriate paperwork.
ashconnor 12y ago
That's true, but they recently deported a few Russian travel guides in Pattaya despite saying that they would allow them to work a few months before. The law is really flexible in Thailand. What's unenforced today could be enforced tomorrow.
- peteretep 12y ago
  > they recently deported a few Russian travel guides in > Pattaya Which - even if they gave it a nod - is a completely different situation. > The law is really flexible in Thailand Which assuming you aren't destitute, can sometimes work in your favour... If you're in Bangkok, drop me a line and let's grab a coffee.
  - saryant 12y ago
    The people doing this also aren't likely doing visa runs, they'll just come in under the 30-day visa free entry and then go home once it expires. Much harder to get caught that way. Though I did read rumors of Thai police cracking down on a coworking center in Phuket.
gambiting 12y ago
Upon entering any country with visa requirements you are asked - what is the purpose of your visit? If you answer "work" then you need a work visa, simple as that.
- peteretep 12y ago
  This is completely untrue in practice, without resorting to maximum pedantry. For example, when entering the US for a business trip under ESTA, you will be asked at customs for the purpose of your trip. If you say "I'm here to see some clients for business, and I plan to spend all my free time answering email and catching up on work", you will still gain entry, even though you plan to PERFORM WORK IN THE USA. This is also true of almost every visa-on-arrival country. You are also making the mistake of thinking that governments are monolithic in caring about these things. Border control only care about if you're planning to overstay your welcome, and care about employment only as a precursor to that. The relevant labour department cares about if you're going to seek employment while you're there, but generally they're not present at the border. The tax authorities don't really care about either of those, but want to know if you'll have income arising in their jurisdiction while they're there, and their definition of "arising" will stretch to many arcane pages. These can be competing goals, and tax departments/ministries will often make sure their data can't be accessed by other departments because they want to encourage illegal immigrants to pay tax...
  - gambiting 12y ago
    I'm 99% certain you are wrong, at least when it comes to visits to the USA. If you were granted a B1(tourist) visa, you almost definitely can't say to the border guard that "I'm here to see some clients for business, and I plan to spend all my free time answering email and catching up on work", because this is what the B2(business) visa is for - it doesn't allow you to work - as in, become employed - in the States, but it allows you to do everything you've just listed. It's a specific visa used for the purposes of conducting "business" - and working remotely almost certainly classifies as "business". So to re-iterate: if you've been granted a Tourist visa, but your reason to visit is conducting business, then yeah, you will be denied entry to USA.

Morgawr 12y ago

Even within the EU it can be a total pain to set up the proper taxing documents and everything. It's certainly simpler, but not that immediate, you still need an infrastructure to support it.