4 ms·

It sounds to me like this isn't a vacation at all: it's just a business trip, paid for by the employee's company. << Matej Hrescak, a product designer at Faceb

It sounds to me like this isn't a vacation at all: it's just a business trip, paid for by the employee's company. << Matej Hrescak, a product designer at Facebook, spent several weeks at the Surf Office on Gran Canaria in the Canary Islands, near one of the island’s noted surfing beaches. “I really appreciate long uninterrupted periods of work time in order to dive deep into a particular problem, and having a destination where you’re far away from usual distractions made this possible,” he said. The high-speed Internet, fully stocked office, access to a kitchen and camaraderie of other guests at barbecues, biking trips and other planned group activities, he added, all contributed to his productivity. >> I wouldn't be very happy if I were expected to contribute to travel or lodging while "co-working on vacation" - or if the trip used up any vacation time.

andyjdavis 12y ago
The use of the word vacation in relation to remote work is definitely odd. I personally have been a full-time remote worker for over 3 years now (I'm Australian but sitting in an apartment in Barcelona right now) and work with a bunch of other remote workers. We very definitely have very distinct holidays/vacation time. Our work and personal lives are just as separate as a regular in-person worker. The only difference is that when I go on vacation I don't typically have to go anywhere as I have previously relocated to my desired vacation spot.
- Luyt 12y ago
  Did you have to obtain any special visa or permits for this? Do you happen to know if it also works the other way round? For example, suppose I'm from the EU, can I travel to Australia as a tourist and legally telework from there?
  - ashconnor 12y ago
    Did you have to obtain any special visa or permits for this? Australian citizens require a work visa to work in Spain [1] [1] - http://www.expatica.co.uk/es/visas-and-permits/work-permits/Work-in-Spain-Guide-to-Spanish-work-visas_103258.html http://www.expatica.co.uk/es/visas-and-permits/work-permits/... ..can I travel to Australia as a tourist and legally telework from there? No. Again you need a work visa [2] [2] - http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/Work.aspx http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/Work.aspx These articles like to paint a rosy picture of just jumping a plane with your laptop to an exotic location. The reality if you want to be legal is different and much more difficult that that.
    - SyneRyder 12y ago
      If you're under 30, you could look into the Working Holiday Visa program that many countries participate in: http://www.workingholidayinfo.com/ http://www.workingholidayinfo.com/ [Side note - the owner of that website also blogs at Nerdy Nomad about working from a laptop while travelling the world: http://www.nerdynomad.com/ http://www.nerdynomad.com/ ]
  - andyjdavis 12y ago
    Those are actually rather interesting questions. The completely honest answer is I don't really know. The man in the street will typically say "of course you need a work permit" but I am not so sure. The practical answer is no, you don't need any kind of special visa or permit. Generally the notion of a remote worker (a foreigner who is employed in their home country while physically being in other countries) fits very poorly with immigration/visa rules. Those things move at a glacial pace and have in no way kept up with technology (generally speaking). The assumption underpinning pretty much everyone's work permit/visa rules is that a foreigner wanting to physically work in the local environment will be employed by locals ie they will participate in the local labor market, will take money from a local employer and be competing with locals for jobs. Alternatively you might be a visiting business person wanting to do business with a local company. However I am Australian, I am legally an Australian resident, my employer is Australian, 100% of the financials (bank accounts, all paperwork) is in Australia and I pay tax in Australia. I have never taken a cent from a local business or individual, I am not participating in the local labor market in any way and I have no interest in doing business with local companies. I don't even have a local bank account or a local permanent address. Even if I registered to pay income tax in another country the amount would be $0 because I am not earning any money here. My work doesn't touch the local environment anymore than someone on holiday checking their email or taking a phone call from home. So in practice, as far as the host country is concerned, I am simply a tourist. If anyone asks about my plans (which they very very rarely ever do) I am simply taking an extended trip (which is the truth) and I can show sufficient means of support (ie money in the bank). As for the legality of this I am uncertain. I certainly don't have any ethical concerns. Were I to not do any work while visiting a country the local labor market would not be affected in any way, some locals would be deprived of additional income on which they presumably pay tax and a company back home would be deprived of an experienced worker if I was forced to not do my work while visiting other countries. No one is harmed by what I do and a lot of people derive some benefit from it.
- tjbiddle 12y ago
  Hi! Where did you meet your roommates? It would be great to have that gig and live with people in a similar situation.
Luyt 12y ago
Did Mr. Hrescak have a special visum for this, to be able to work in the EU as an US citizen? (I assume he's an US citizen because it is meant he's from Facebook). It doesn't work the other way round. If I remember correctly, one is not allowed to telework from the USA on a tourist visum.
- kifki 12y ago
  I think he's from Slovakia, which is part of the EU.
ripb 12y ago
"I wouldn't be very happy if I were expected to contribute to travel or lodging while "co-working on vacation" - or if the trip used up any vacation time." This is the kicker. It sounds like an absolutely fantastic opportunity...so long as you still get your normal vacation days to take as you want. If this is meant to replace vacation time though then it's simply another contribution in the race to the work/life balance bottom.
DennisP 12y ago
I'm wondering whether they would have to send people to the Canary Islands to do focused work, if they gave developers private offices instead of cramming them into their famous open floor plan.
taternuts 12y ago
Yeah. At one point in time I worked remotely in costa rica with the same kind of idea, to have a "working vacation", and it ended up just being plain old work because we were always too busy and pressured with our workload to enjoy our surroundings.
- billbowery 12y ago
  Yes, I've had that experience too. It actually makes work and vacation more stressful.
mzeitler 12y ago
It is more the combination of having a desk with fast internet, being able to network with others and having fun. The idea of combining work&travel is more applicable to location independent entrepreneurs and freelancers that can work from anywhere whenever they want. If you are an employee then it's "just" like working from a coworking space remotely. But if you work on your own projects, it's really about the inspiring environment with like minded people.

andyjdavis 12y ago

The use of the word vacation in relation to remote work is definitely odd. I personally have been a full-time remote worker for over 3 years now (I'm Australian but sitting in an apartment in Barcelona right now) and work with a bunch of other remote workers. We very definitely have very distinct holidays/vacation time. Our work and personal lives are just as separate as a regular in-person worker. The only difference is that when I go on vacation I don't typically have to go anywhere as I have previously relocated to my desired vacation spot.

Luyt 12y ago
Did you have to obtain any special visa or permits for this? Do you happen to know if it also works the other way round? For example, suppose I'm from the EU, can I travel to Australia as a tourist and legally telework from there?
- ashconnor 12y ago
  Did you have to obtain any special visa or permits for this? Australian citizens require a work visa to work in Spain [1] [1] - http://www.expatica.co.uk/es/visas-and-permits/work-permits/Work-in-Spain-Guide-to-Spanish-work-visas_103258.html http://www.expatica.co.uk/es/visas-and-permits/work-permits/... ..can I travel to Australia as a tourist and legally telework from there? No. Again you need a work visa [2] [2] - http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/Work.aspx http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/Work.aspx These articles like to paint a rosy picture of just jumping a plane with your laptop to an exotic location. The reality if you want to be legal is different and much more difficult that that.
  - SyneRyder 12y ago
    If you're under 30, you could look into the Working Holiday Visa program that many countries participate in: http://www.workingholidayinfo.com/ http://www.workingholidayinfo.com/ [Side note - the owner of that website also blogs at Nerdy Nomad about working from a laptop while travelling the world: http://www.nerdynomad.com/ http://www.nerdynomad.com/ ]
- andyjdavis 12y ago
  Those are actually rather interesting questions. The completely honest answer is I don't really know. The man in the street will typically say "of course you need a work permit" but I am not so sure. The practical answer is no, you don't need any kind of special visa or permit. Generally the notion of a remote worker (a foreigner who is employed in their home country while physically being in other countries) fits very poorly with immigration/visa rules. Those things move at a glacial pace and have in no way kept up with technology (generally speaking). The assumption underpinning pretty much everyone's work permit/visa rules is that a foreigner wanting to physically work in the local environment will be employed by locals ie they will participate in the local labor market, will take money from a local employer and be competing with locals for jobs. Alternatively you might be a visiting business person wanting to do business with a local company. However I am Australian, I am legally an Australian resident, my employer is Australian, 100% of the financials (bank accounts, all paperwork) is in Australia and I pay tax in Australia. I have never taken a cent from a local business or individual, I am not participating in the local labor market in any way and I have no interest in doing business with local companies. I don't even have a local bank account or a local permanent address. Even if I registered to pay income tax in another country the amount would be $0 because I am not earning any money here. My work doesn't touch the local environment anymore than someone on holiday checking their email or taking a phone call from home. So in practice, as far as the host country is concerned, I am simply a tourist. If anyone asks about my plans (which they very very rarely ever do) I am simply taking an extended trip (which is the truth) and I can show sufficient means of support (ie money in the bank). As for the legality of this I am uncertain. I certainly don't have any ethical concerns. Were I to not do any work while visiting a country the local labor market would not be affected in any way, some locals would be deprived of additional income on which they presumably pay tax and a company back home would be deprived of an experienced worker if I was forced to not do my work while visiting other countries. No one is harmed by what I do and a lot of people derive some benefit from it.
tjbiddle 12y ago
Hi! Where did you meet your roommates? It would be great to have that gig and live with people in a similar situation.

Luyt 12y ago

Did Mr. Hrescak have a special visum for this, to be able to work in the EU as an US citizen? (I assume he's an US citizen because it is meant he's from Facebook). It doesn't work the other way round. If I remember correctly, one is not allowed to telework from the USA on a tourist visum.

kifki 12y ago
I think he's from Slovakia, which is part of the EU.

ripb 12y ago

"I wouldn't be very happy if I were expected to contribute to travel or lodging while "co-working on vacation" - or if the trip used up any vacation time." This is the kicker. It sounds like an absolutely fantastic opportunity...so long as you still get your normal vacation days to take as you want. If this is meant to replace vacation time though then it's simply another contribution in the race to the work/life balance bottom.

DennisP 12y ago

I'm wondering whether they would have to send people to the Canary Islands to do focused work, if they gave developers private offices instead of cramming them into their famous open floor plan.

taternuts 12y ago

Yeah. At one point in time I worked remotely in costa rica with the same kind of idea, to have a "working vacation", and it ended up just being plain old work because we were always too busy and pressured with our workload to enjoy our surroundings.

billbowery 12y ago
Yes, I've had that experience too. It actually makes work and vacation more stressful.

mzeitler 12y ago

It is more the combination of having a desk with fast internet, being able to network with others and having fun. The idea of combining work&travel is more applicable to location independent entrepreneurs and freelancers that can work from anywhere whenever they want. If you are an employee then it's "just" like working from a coworking space remotely. But if you work on your own projects, it's really about the inspiring environment with like minded people.