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It is a misconception that the NSA is an anti-terrorism agency. It is a general signal intelligence agency. It's job is the gather as much foreign intelligence

It is a misconception that the NSA is an anti-terrorism agency. It is a general signal intelligence agency. It's job is the gather as much foreign intelligence as possible. And that sure includes:Like tracking the intricacies of various global markets, cultural movements, politicians, judges, activists and other influencers in society. Like basically an opportunity to see everybody at the table's cards (including your friends) in order to maximize power? Where you go wrong is assuming that means they have some dastardly plan to subvert global democracy. The government just really wants good intel. They want to know if Russian sanctions are working. They want to know if N. Korea is really just bullshiting or do they mean it. They want to know how much longer with Germany prop up Southern Europe. They want to know if Cuba is serious about opening up trade. They want to know if some French scientist is about to develop software that beats US electronic warfare defenses on their AEGIS destroyers.

TheCraiggers 12y ago
Sure, but all that info is power. I understand why the US government wants power over other states, as distasteful as it is. However, power corrupts, and I don't feel the government needs additional power over its own people. And I especially don't feel that a specific department needs power over people that just so happen to be politicians that might someday oppose that department.
spammyusername 12y ago
How would you know what use the information is being put to?
- LLWM 12y ago
  You don't. You elect people to represent you, they get told what use the information is being put to, and they make decisions accordingly.
  - flycaliguy 12y ago
    What if they are lying to the officials? Or what if they have information on the officials? What if they don't have information on the officials but the officials have been convinced that they probably do?
    - LLWM 12y ago
      What if the officials are mind-controlled by alien slugs? What if the NSA is actually a terminator skynet sent back from the future? There are lots of scenarios in which we're screwed and can't do anything about it. That's life.
      - flycaliguy 12y ago
        I'm no expert on logical fallacies but I think your response here is one of them.
        LLWM 12y ago
        I am an expert, and it's not. How do you like them arguments from authority?
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - spammyusername 12y ago
        This is pure ignorance. No one who falls into the trap of thinking like this will ever contribute anything useful to society.
        LLWM 12y ago
        I would say that the statement easily disproven by a single counterexample is more ignorant, but suit yourself.
- rhino369 12y ago
  How do you know what the military is being put to? Any government power can be misused. Foreign intelligence isn't particularly dangerous.
  - spammyusername 12y ago
    Foreign intelligence is used to interrogate/arrest/kill people. Only powers that are granted can be misused, we as citizens can take anything we want away from the government.
flycaliguy 12y ago
Great response, thank you. You're right, it's hard during this current media push to remember that these organizations aren't just fighting terror. I suppose that is the easiest way to market them to keep the public from getting to concerned over it. What if they are using the intel they are gathering in order to influence the public's opinion as effectively as possible? It's that sort of power consolidation that worries me and makes me question when an allegiance to the democratic nation that created them starts to fade away. How does a free nation effectively control an intelligence agency like this to prevent it from slowly usurping all the seats of power? It seems to me that with the expanding technological capabilities of our modern age, we are feeding our guard dog a new super food and it's going to bite our neck if we try to slow down the input and tighten it's leash.
- LLWM 12y ago
  >What if they are using the intel they are gathering in order to influence the public's opinion as effectively as possible? Then they're even more incompetent than any of us could have ever imagined.
  - flycaliguy 12y ago
    Really? Because it seems to me like they are chugging along just fine. They have plenty of wiggle room unlike real adversaries like Snowden. If they've seen a dip in public support I'm sure short and long term projections have it not only solved but completely countered. They may never convince the HN crowd but the HN crowd doesn't need to be convinced.
    - LLWM 12y ago
      Whether this is "good enough" for them to keep doing what they do wasn't the question. The question was whether they were doing their best to influence public opinion.
- rhino369 12y ago
  It's possible, but there is no indication that the US security agencies "go rouge." The NSA might be stretching the 4th Amendment but it does so at the command of the President and it does within the bounds of the law. When Obama had the CIA kill a US citizen, they wrote a legal memo about it. The rule of law is still worshiped in the US. It helps that the leadership of these agencies are political appointees and then rank and file are just regular bureaucrats. The guys at the NSA aren't some secret cabal. It's the nerdy dood you play Settles of Caatan with at a game club in DC. I also think controlling public opinion is a lot harder than you are imagining. Even in N. Korea the people generally know their country is bullshiting them.

TheCraiggers 12y ago

Sure, but all that info is power. I understand why the US government wants power over other states, as distasteful as it is. However, power corrupts, and I don't feel the government needs additional power over its own people. And I especially don't feel that a specific department needs power over people that just so happen to be politicians that might someday oppose that department.

spammyusername 12y ago

How would you know what use the information is being put to?

LLWM 12y ago
You don't. You elect people to represent you, they get told what use the information is being put to, and they make decisions accordingly.
- flycaliguy 12y ago
  What if they are lying to the officials? Or what if they have information on the officials? What if they don't have information on the officials but the officials have been convinced that they probably do?
  - LLWM 12y ago
    What if the officials are mind-controlled by alien slugs? What if the NSA is actually a terminator skynet sent back from the future? There are lots of scenarios in which we're screwed and can't do anything about it. That's life.
    - flycaliguy 12y ago
      I'm no expert on logical fallacies but I think your response here is one of them.
      - LLWM 12y ago
        I am an expert, and it's not. How do you like them arguments from authority?
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - spammyusername 12y ago
      This is pure ignorance. No one who falls into the trap of thinking like this will ever contribute anything useful to society.
      - LLWM 12y ago
        I would say that the statement easily disproven by a single counterexample is more ignorant, but suit yourself.
rhino369 12y ago
How do you know what the military is being put to? Any government power can be misused. Foreign intelligence isn't particularly dangerous.
- spammyusername 12y ago
  Foreign intelligence is used to interrogate/arrest/kill people. Only powers that are granted can be misused, we as citizens can take anything we want away from the government.

flycaliguy 12y ago

Great response, thank you. You're right, it's hard during this current media push to remember that these organizations aren't just fighting terror. I suppose that is the easiest way to market them to keep the public from getting to concerned over it. What if they are using the intel they are gathering in order to influence the public's opinion as effectively as possible? It's that sort of power consolidation that worries me and makes me question when an allegiance to the democratic nation that created them starts to fade away. How does a free nation effectively control an intelligence agency like this to prevent it from slowly usurping all the seats of power? It seems to me that with the expanding technological capabilities of our modern age, we are feeding our guard dog a new super food and it's going to bite our neck if we try to slow down the input and tighten it's leash.

LLWM 12y ago
>What if they are using the intel they are gathering in order to influence the public's opinion as effectively as possible? Then they're even more incompetent than any of us could have ever imagined.
- flycaliguy 12y ago
  Really? Because it seems to me like they are chugging along just fine. They have plenty of wiggle room unlike real adversaries like Snowden. If they've seen a dip in public support I'm sure short and long term projections have it not only solved but completely countered. They may never convince the HN crowd but the HN crowd doesn't need to be convinced.
  - LLWM 12y ago
    Whether this is "good enough" for them to keep doing what they do wasn't the question. The question was whether they were doing their best to influence public opinion.
rhino369 12y ago
It's possible, but there is no indication that the US security agencies "go rouge." The NSA might be stretching the 4th Amendment but it does so at the command of the President and it does within the bounds of the law. When Obama had the CIA kill a US citizen, they wrote a legal memo about it. The rule of law is still worshiped in the US. It helps that the leadership of these agencies are political appointees and then rank and file are just regular bureaucrats. The guys at the NSA aren't some secret cabal. It's the nerdy dood you play Settles of Caatan with at a game club in DC. I also think controlling public opinion is a lot harder than you are imagining. Even in N. Korea the people generally know their country is bullshiting them.