4 ms·

I think the biggest problem is we are getting e-books that are just digital representations of physical books. I'm learning music theory right now and it would

by lbotos 12y ago

I think the biggest problem is we are getting e-books that are just digital representations of physical books. I'm learning music theory right now and it would be great if the book I'm following was an app with animated examples to re-enforce the concepts. I'm also imagining the time I first saw the animated unit circle gif (years after trig class): http://i.stack.imgur.com/1oSJw.gif http://i.stack.imgur.com/1oSJw.gif If that was in my "e-textbook", I think some concepts would be easier to explain. I think we are sitting at just the cusp of what "e-books" in school should be. They shouldn't just be for words, but for conceptual learning in a school setting.

bphogan 12y ago
I agree with this. And as an author and teacher, I really want to use iBooks Author for that reason, but it's incredibly limited in both what it allows and who can use the books. There's an opportunity for an authoring tool for these kinds of books where media can be easily managed, and interactivity can be easily integrated. ePub has some potential, but again, the e-readers handle it poorly in my experience. What options and tools are out there to solve this problem? I've looked at SCORM, I've hacked some web page stuff together, but those all seem to require you to sit in front of an actual computer, not in a self-contained book format. Some friends of mine have done amazing things with iBooks Author, but the reach is very narrow from what I can tell.
baddox 12y ago
Which book are you reading, out of curiosity? I recently bought Harmonic Experience, the physical book, and thought it was funny that it is even offered in the Kindle format. (By the way, it's not at all an introductory or comprehensive music theory book. It's about the history of harmony, temperament systems, and psychoacoustics.) http://www.amazon.com/Harmonic-Experience-Harmony-Natural-Expression/dp/0892815604 http://www.amazon.com/Harmonic-Experience-Harmony-Natural-Ex...
- lbotos 12y ago
  I'm reading http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1598635034/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me= http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1598635034/ref=olp_product_... which was chosen because I hoped that the "angle" would be useful for me as a DJ who needs to start making some remixes to go to the "next level". I'm about 4 chapters in so far and I'm pretty happy. I've also been supplementing it with Tenuto, Theory and Fiddlewax Blue (All iOS apps). I plan on getting FiddleWax Pro soon as it seems really fun.
  - baddox 12y ago
    That's interesting. I don't listen to any electronic music so I've never contemplated music theory from that angle. I'm also not aware of any music theory apps other than EarWizard [0], which does relative pitch training. I'll have to check out the ones you mentioned. [0] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/earwizard/id599466971?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/earwizard/id599466971?mt=8
- theOnliest 12y ago
  I wanted to put in a plug for Open Music Theory [1], for anybody who's interested. It's an open-source [2], Creative-Commons licensed music theory text designed for use in college music theory classrooms. It's written primarily by some friends of mine, all with teaching positions and Theory PhDs, so the material is good. I'm using the 20th-century materials in my class this semester instead of assigning a $100+ textbook. It's not quite as comprehensive as a dead-tree book (yet?), but is a great resource for beginners, or people looking to supplement their knowledge. [1] http://openmusictheory.com http://openmusictheory.com [2] https://github.com/openmusictheory/openmusictheory.github.io https://github.com/openmusictheory/openmusictheory.github.io
ashark 12y ago
You seem to be describing web pages. In ~20 years they've had little success in replacing textbooks. Since they're so obviously superior for that purpose, I can only assume it's because there's not enough money in it for one reason or another. Seems like some sort of free multimedia web textbooks resource would be a great way to spend public money helping some of those unemployed/underemployed professional scholars and scientists that are often covered on HN. Shouldn't even cost much, as government education expenditures go.
- potatolicious 12y ago
  > "In ~20 years they've had little success in replacing textbooks." I'd argue they have, just not in an official capacity. Even when I was in high school (early 2000s) we relied on websites (and diagrams like above) more than we did our physical books, which were largely not useful for learning. The learners have embraced the power of multimedia and the web, I suppose the problem is that "I made website that makes it easier to learn" is not a photo-op moment like "look at us holding this iPad!".
- lbotos 12y ago
  You are right. In that way, "e-books" allow you to bundle up a web page in a supportable, standardized format that is easy to sell in bulk. The main reason I know of that teachers use text books is for assignments and pre-built tests. That's where text book companies make some money.
- CompanyLaser 12y ago
  I think the problem is that education has a deeply embedded tradition of disciplined austerity. I grew up with plenty of "fun interactive multimedia education" but the people commissioned to make that stuff are frumpy and boring as hell and probably hate their jobs. By comparison, very few people who upload educational videos to YouTube do it because they were told to. It's something they're passionate about. All the best teachers I had made heavy use of YouTube in the classroom.
- Retra 12y ago
  My biggest irritation with using web pages for school is that with schoolwork, I am often looking down at my desk with paper and pencil in front of me. Using a website requires me to look up and deal with a keyboard taking all my desk space. It is hard to focus on the work when you are fighting with a computer at the same time.

by lbotos 12y ago

bphogan 12y ago

I agree with this. And as an author and teacher, I really want to use iBooks Author for that reason, but it's incredibly limited in both what it allows and who can use the books. There's an opportunity for an authoring tool for these kinds of books where media can be easily managed, and interactivity can be easily integrated. ePub has some potential, but again, the e-readers handle it poorly in my experience. What options and tools are out there to solve this problem? I've looked at SCORM, I've hacked some web page stuff together, but those all seem to require you to sit in front of an actual computer, not in a self-contained book format. Some friends of mine have done amazing things with iBooks Author, but the reach is very narrow from what I can tell.

baddox 12y ago

Which book are you reading, out of curiosity? I recently bought Harmonic Experience, the physical book, and thought it was funny that it is even offered in the Kindle format. (By the way, it's not at all an introductory or comprehensive music theory book. It's about the history of harmony, temperament systems, and psychoacoustics.) http://www.amazon.com/Harmonic-Experience-Harmony-Natural-Expression/dp/0892815604 http://www.amazon.com/Harmonic-Experience-Harmony-Natural-Ex...

lbotos 12y ago
I'm reading http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1598635034/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me= http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1598635034/ref=olp_product_... which was chosen because I hoped that the "angle" would be useful for me as a DJ who needs to start making some remixes to go to the "next level". I'm about 4 chapters in so far and I'm pretty happy. I've also been supplementing it with Tenuto, Theory and Fiddlewax Blue (All iOS apps). I plan on getting FiddleWax Pro soon as it seems really fun.
- baddox 12y ago
  That's interesting. I don't listen to any electronic music so I've never contemplated music theory from that angle. I'm also not aware of any music theory apps other than EarWizard [0], which does relative pitch training. I'll have to check out the ones you mentioned. [0] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/earwizard/id599466971?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/earwizard/id599466971?mt=8
theOnliest 12y ago
I wanted to put in a plug for Open Music Theory [1], for anybody who's interested. It's an open-source [2], Creative-Commons licensed music theory text designed for use in college music theory classrooms. It's written primarily by some friends of mine, all with teaching positions and Theory PhDs, so the material is good. I'm using the 20th-century materials in my class this semester instead of assigning a $100+ textbook. It's not quite as comprehensive as a dead-tree book (yet?), but is a great resource for beginners, or people looking to supplement their knowledge. [1] http://openmusictheory.com http://openmusictheory.com [2] https://github.com/openmusictheory/openmusictheory.github.io https://github.com/openmusictheory/openmusictheory.github.io

ashark 12y ago

You seem to be describing web pages. In ~20 years they've had little success in replacing textbooks. Since they're so obviously superior for that purpose, I can only assume it's because there's not enough money in it for one reason or another. Seems like some sort of free multimedia web textbooks resource would be a great way to spend public money helping some of those unemployed/underemployed professional scholars and scientists that are often covered on HN. Shouldn't even cost much, as government education expenditures go.

potatolicious 12y ago
> "In ~20 years they've had little success in replacing textbooks." I'd argue they have, just not in an official capacity. Even when I was in high school (early 2000s) we relied on websites (and diagrams like above) more than we did our physical books, which were largely not useful for learning. The learners have embraced the power of multimedia and the web, I suppose the problem is that "I made website that makes it easier to learn" is not a photo-op moment like "look at us holding this iPad!".
lbotos 12y ago
You are right. In that way, "e-books" allow you to bundle up a web page in a supportable, standardized format that is easy to sell in bulk. The main reason I know of that teachers use text books is for assignments and pre-built tests. That's where text book companies make some money.
CompanyLaser 12y ago
I think the problem is that education has a deeply embedded tradition of disciplined austerity. I grew up with plenty of "fun interactive multimedia education" but the people commissioned to make that stuff are frumpy and boring as hell and probably hate their jobs. By comparison, very few people who upload educational videos to YouTube do it because they were told to. It's something they're passionate about. All the best teachers I had made heavy use of YouTube in the classroom.
Retra 12y ago
My biggest irritation with using web pages for school is that with schoolwork, I am often looking down at my desk with paper and pencil in front of me. Using a website requires me to look up and deal with a keyboard taking all my desk space. It is hard to focus on the work when you are fighting with a computer at the same time.