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I feel like I'm stating the obvious a bit here to HN, but does anybody else think this might have more to do with something completely removed from terrorism. L

I feel like I'm stating the obvious a bit here to HN, but does anybody else think this might have more to do with something completely removed from terrorism. Like tracking the intricacies of various global markets, cultural movements, politicians, judges, activists and other influencers in society. Like basically an opportunity to see everybody at the table's cards (including your friends) in order to maximize power? Basically arranging enough small advantages through calculation in order to statistically improve success in all manner of maneuvers. The ability to further reduce any semblance of the democratic process by taking your average politician's polling strategy to a much higher level? Is there a book on this that anybody recommends? Is this what Art of War is about or something?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
gaius 12y ago
Sure. He's the NSA helping Boeing win a contract against Airbus http://www.economist.com/node/1842124 http://www.economist.com/node/1842124
- csandreasen 12y ago
  That's an interesting spin on what the article said. To quote: According to a European Parliament report, published in 2001, America's National Security Agency (NSA) intercepted faxes and phone calls between Airbus, Saudi Arabian Airlines and the Saudi government in early 1994. The NSA found that Airbus agents were offering bribes to a Saudi official to secure a lion's share for Airbus in modernising Saudi Arabian Airlines' fleet. The planes were in a $6 billion deal that Edouard Balladur, France's then prime minister, had hoped to clinch on a visit to see King Fahd in January 1994. He went home empty-handed. James Woolsey, then director of the Central Intelligence Agency, recounted in a newspaper article in 2000 how the American government typically reacted to intelligence of this sort. “When we have caught you [Europeans]...we go to the government you're bribing and tell its officials that we don't take kindly to such corruption,” he wrote. Apparently this (and a direct sales pitch from Bill Clinton to King Fahd) swung the aircraft part of the deal Boeing's and McDonnell Douglas's way.
  - gaius 12y ago
    “When we have caught you [Europeans]...we go to the government you're bribing and tell its officials that we don't take kindly to such corruption,” That's very altruistic, and only a pure coincidence that an American defence contractor, who is purer than the driven snow, should get the work instead.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    I guess McDonnell Douglas was still smarting from that deal in '79 when they were indicted for... bribing the officials of 5 foreign countries (including nl).
lukifer 12y ago
You nailed it: Sun Tzu 101 is that information (and disinformation) is power.
rhino369 12y ago
It is a misconception that the NSA is an anti-terrorism agency. It is a general signal intelligence agency. It's job is the gather as much foreign intelligence as possible. And that sure includes:Like tracking the intricacies of various global markets, cultural movements, politicians, judges, activists and other influencers in society. Like basically an opportunity to see everybody at the table's cards (including your friends) in order to maximize power? Where you go wrong is assuming that means they have some dastardly plan to subvert global democracy. The government just really wants good intel. They want to know if Russian sanctions are working. They want to know if N. Korea is really just bullshiting or do they mean it. They want to know how much longer with Germany prop up Southern Europe. They want to know if Cuba is serious about opening up trade. They want to know if some French scientist is about to develop software that beats US electronic warfare defenses on their AEGIS destroyers.
- TheCraiggers 12y ago
  Sure, but all that info is power. I understand why the US government wants power over other states, as distasteful as it is. However, power corrupts, and I don't feel the government needs additional power over its own people. And I especially don't feel that a specific department needs power over people that just so happen to be politicians that might someday oppose that department.
- spammyusername 12y ago
  How would you know what use the information is being put to?
  - LLWM 12y ago
    You don't. You elect people to represent you, they get told what use the information is being put to, and they make decisions accordingly.
    - flycaliguy 12y ago
      What if they are lying to the officials? Or what if they have information on the officials? What if they don't have information on the officials but the officials have been convinced that they probably do?
Zigurd 12y ago
Exactly. This is about finding the nail that sticks up and pounding it flat, before it can cause any trouble, such a movement for changing, say, distribution of wealth. Instead, the result will be that change is suppressed until there is a large scale rupture.
Htsthbjig 12y ago
Of course. The people in power has one priority: to preserve their power at all cost. It is human, or even social animal nature. Any social animals have alpha males,an alpha females. They fight for power. In Politics any politician has a dossier with the life and errors of each adversary. Now the dossier is digital. PS: I met a translator for governments, very well paid. This person left her job because he did not want to know what she was. She thought it put her life on risk.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

gaius 12y ago

Sure. He's the NSA helping Boeing win a contract against Airbus http://www.economist.com/node/1842124 http://www.economist.com/node/1842124

csandreasen 12y ago
That's an interesting spin on what the article said. To quote: According to a European Parliament report, published in 2001, America's National Security Agency (NSA) intercepted faxes and phone calls between Airbus, Saudi Arabian Airlines and the Saudi government in early 1994. The NSA found that Airbus agents were offering bribes to a Saudi official to secure a lion's share for Airbus in modernising Saudi Arabian Airlines' fleet. The planes were in a $6 billion deal that Edouard Balladur, France's then prime minister, had hoped to clinch on a visit to see King Fahd in January 1994. He went home empty-handed. James Woolsey, then director of the Central Intelligence Agency, recounted in a newspaper article in 2000 how the American government typically reacted to intelligence of this sort. “When we have caught you [Europeans]...we go to the government you're bribing and tell its officials that we don't take kindly to such corruption,” he wrote. Apparently this (and a direct sales pitch from Bill Clinton to King Fahd) swung the aircraft part of the deal Boeing's and McDonnell Douglas's way.
- gaius 12y ago
  “When we have caught you [Europeans]...we go to the government you're bribing and tell its officials that we don't take kindly to such corruption,” That's very altruistic, and only a pure coincidence that an American defence contractor, who is purer than the driven snow, should get the work instead.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  I guess McDonnell Douglas was still smarting from that deal in '79 when they were indicted for... bribing the officials of 5 foreign countries (including nl).

lukifer 12y ago

You nailed it: Sun Tzu 101 is that information (and disinformation) is power.

rhino369 12y ago

It is a misconception that the NSA is an anti-terrorism agency. It is a general signal intelligence agency. It's job is the gather as much foreign intelligence as possible. And that sure includes:Like tracking the intricacies of various global markets, cultural movements, politicians, judges, activists and other influencers in society. Like basically an opportunity to see everybody at the table's cards (including your friends) in order to maximize power? Where you go wrong is assuming that means they have some dastardly plan to subvert global democracy. The government just really wants good intel. They want to know if Russian sanctions are working. They want to know if N. Korea is really just bullshiting or do they mean it. They want to know how much longer with Germany prop up Southern Europe. They want to know if Cuba is serious about opening up trade. They want to know if some French scientist is about to develop software that beats US electronic warfare defenses on their AEGIS destroyers.

TheCraiggers 12y ago
Sure, but all that info is power. I understand why the US government wants power over other states, as distasteful as it is. However, power corrupts, and I don't feel the government needs additional power over its own people. And I especially don't feel that a specific department needs power over people that just so happen to be politicians that might someday oppose that department.
spammyusername 12y ago
How would you know what use the information is being put to?
- LLWM 12y ago
  You don't. You elect people to represent you, they get told what use the information is being put to, and they make decisions accordingly.
  - flycaliguy 12y ago
    What if they are lying to the officials? Or what if they have information on the officials? What if they don't have information on the officials but the officials have been convinced that they probably do?

Zigurd 12y ago

Exactly. This is about finding the nail that sticks up and pounding it flat, before it can cause any trouble, such a movement for changing, say, distribution of wealth. Instead, the result will be that change is suppressed until there is a large scale rupture.

Htsthbjig 12y ago

Of course. The people in power has one priority: to preserve their power at all cost. It is human, or even social animal nature. Any social animals have alpha males,an alpha females. They fight for power. In Politics any politician has a dossier with the life and errors of each adversary. Now the dossier is digital. PS: I met a translator for governments, very well paid. This person left her job because he did not want to know what she was. She thought it put her life on risk.