5 ms·

I thought I'd add a few tidbits here on gender differences. I play women's football and coach high school guys football. Football is one of the most teamwork-d

I thought I'd add a few tidbits here on gender differences. I play women's football and coach high school guys football. Football is one of the most teamwork-dependent sports out there. Everyone has to be doing his job every single play. There's no way for one player to carry the team. Before I started coaching guys' football, I had heard consistently from other coaches in my women's league that women are way easier to coach than men in the game of football. Reasons given included less attitude, less individualism, less ego, more willing to work together, etc. When I started coaching high school ball, this was exactly the case. So much of my time was wasted beating the individualism out of these boys and getting them to play for each other, not themselves. Maybe it's that football attracts a certain type of male. But I think women might be more naturally disposed to working on a team than men on average.

Clever321 12y ago
I'm pretty sure Manning and other great QBs were capable of carrying entire teams. Not to argue your point, with which I agree, but just saying :)
- pageld 12y ago
  I'm going to say sure, great players can make their teams better. Much more so in fact. However it takes more than just one person to be able to win games. Look at Favre. Great in Green Bay, dismal on the Jets, pretty darn good in Minnesota. Differences were the teams/line/wr's were better in Green Bay and Minnesota. If you are getting sacked every third play, you aren't going to be able to carry your team like in other sports. Also Adrian Peterson (before all the legal issues) was amazing before last year. All of a sudden parts of the offensive line of MN starts imploding and he goes from best in the league to 'just' really good. If it only takes 2 players on a team to bring a player from almost breaking one of the greatest records in football to average, there is something to be said there. Note I'm a vikings fan, hence my MN examples.
- kelseyfrancis 12y ago
  I don't see how even an exceptional quarterback can be effective if the offensive line and other backs don't block consistently well, or if the receivers don't consistently run the right routes, escape their coverage, actually catch the ball, and run well with it after the catch, or if the running backs don't find the holes the line must create, make good cuts, deflect tackles, and never fumble, or if the place kicker and/or punter don't consistently deliver when one of those things goes wrong, or if despite doing all that stuff right the defense never makes a stop.
  - kendallpark 12y ago
    I agree. Offense can't do anything without a solid line. QB would be sacked every play and RBs would be tackled for loses all day long. Talk to any football coach and they'll tell you how critical the line is to the entire offense. Our old QB used to cook a special dinner for all her o-line every season as a thank-you.
- kendallpark 12y ago
  Without an offensive line? Yeah right. Poor o-line. Their importance to recognition ratio is probably one of the greatest injustices in the sport.
- snowwrestler 12y ago
  A huge part of a quarterback's success is their ability to organize their teammates--through leadership and knowledge--for the best chance of success on every play.
stolio 12y ago
First, women playing football have a common enemy: the evil men who tell them they can't, the patriarchy! A common enemy is great for team dynamics. I can't imagine a spot on the team is sought after by girls the same way it is for guys. When I was in H.S. the football players were the top, they were kings. They had special privileges, they were treated better by teachers, it was always the other guys fault if they picked a fight, etc. They had fought for and earned social status and they were constantly fighting to keep it. The worst player on the team was still part of the team which earned them at minimum social status and physical protection. They also had enormous expectations of winning, of making the playoffs, they were "representing the school." There were other implications of football as well, like college scholarships. Being good could have a drastic effect on their quality of life in the long term. I don't want to diminish what the girls are doing, but I don't see any way they have the same incentives or pressures that the guys have.
- somberi 12y ago
  "I am a member of a team, and I rely on the team, I defer to it and sacrifice for it, because the team, not the individual, is the ultimate champion." - Mia Hamm (For who do know who she is, she is a ex-US soccer captain)
  - stolio 12y ago
    Mia Hamm only proves my point: female athletes don't face the pressures or incentives that males face. When she was playing women's professional soccer in the U.S. the league even existing was considered a success. Her salary peaked at $93,000. Peak salary for the WNBA in 2013 was $107,000. As of 2014 being on an NFL practice squad for a season pays a minimum of $102,000. Being signed to the team pays a minimum over $400k, the max salary for 2014 is $22,000,000. In 2009 the average salary for Women's Professional Soccer players was $32,000. We can idealize female athletes all day, but they simply don't have the same incentives as men to be selfish so it's not a telling comparison. Think about this, the University of Michigan is willing to pay the football coach ten times what they pay their own president[0]. [0] - http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcedelman/2014/12/18/university-of-michigan-offers-football-coach-nearly-10-times-president-salary/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcedelman/2014/12/18/universit...
crpatino 12y ago
I believe everything you said is correct. This is still a non issue. What the GP was complaining about is the political climate where it is natural for a scientist to openly state that women are better than men at X, while it would be career suicide to claim that men are better than women at Y.
- kendallpark 12y ago
  I agree with the statement on political climate. No argument there.
disputin 12y ago
Counter example: I worked with a woman who was such a team player that after literally every email she sent me she would walk over to my desk and disturb me to check that I got it and get my response. Maybe she had only ever used a one way email system. I could have done with a little less teamwork in that situation.
eru 12y ago
Just for clarity: which kind of football are you talking about?

Clever321 12y ago

I'm pretty sure Manning and other great QBs were capable of carrying entire teams. Not to argue your point, with which I agree, but just saying :)

pageld 12y ago
I'm going to say sure, great players can make their teams better. Much more so in fact. However it takes more than just one person to be able to win games. Look at Favre. Great in Green Bay, dismal on the Jets, pretty darn good in Minnesota. Differences were the teams/line/wr's were better in Green Bay and Minnesota. If you are getting sacked every third play, you aren't going to be able to carry your team like in other sports. Also Adrian Peterson (before all the legal issues) was amazing before last year. All of a sudden parts of the offensive line of MN starts imploding and he goes from best in the league to 'just' really good. If it only takes 2 players on a team to bring a player from almost breaking one of the greatest records in football to average, there is something to be said there. Note I'm a vikings fan, hence my MN examples.
kelseyfrancis 12y ago
I don't see how even an exceptional quarterback can be effective if the offensive line and other backs don't block consistently well, or if the receivers don't consistently run the right routes, escape their coverage, actually catch the ball, and run well with it after the catch, or if the running backs don't find the holes the line must create, make good cuts, deflect tackles, and never fumble, or if the place kicker and/or punter don't consistently deliver when one of those things goes wrong, or if despite doing all that stuff right the defense never makes a stop.
- kendallpark 12y ago
  I agree. Offense can't do anything without a solid line. QB would be sacked every play and RBs would be tackled for loses all day long. Talk to any football coach and they'll tell you how critical the line is to the entire offense. Our old QB used to cook a special dinner for all her o-line every season as a thank-you.
kendallpark 12y ago
Without an offensive line? Yeah right. Poor o-line. Their importance to recognition ratio is probably one of the greatest injustices in the sport.
snowwrestler 12y ago
A huge part of a quarterback's success is their ability to organize their teammates--through leadership and knowledge--for the best chance of success on every play.

stolio 12y ago

First, women playing football have a common enemy: the evil men who tell them they can't, the patriarchy! A common enemy is great for team dynamics. I can't imagine a spot on the team is sought after by girls the same way it is for guys. When I was in H.S. the football players were the top, they were kings. They had special privileges, they were treated better by teachers, it was always the other guys fault if they picked a fight, etc. They had fought for and earned social status and they were constantly fighting to keep it. The worst player on the team was still part of the team which earned them at minimum social status and physical protection. They also had enormous expectations of winning, of making the playoffs, they were "representing the school." There were other implications of football as well, like college scholarships. Being good could have a drastic effect on their quality of life in the long term. I don't want to diminish what the girls are doing, but I don't see any way they have the same incentives or pressures that the guys have.

somberi 12y ago
"I am a member of a team, and I rely on the team, I defer to it and sacrifice for it, because the team, not the individual, is the ultimate champion." - Mia Hamm (For who do know who she is, she is a ex-US soccer captain)
- stolio 12y ago
  Mia Hamm only proves my point: female athletes don't face the pressures or incentives that males face. When she was playing women's professional soccer in the U.S. the league even existing was considered a success. Her salary peaked at $93,000. Peak salary for the WNBA in 2013 was $107,000. As of 2014 being on an NFL practice squad for a season pays a minimum of $102,000. Being signed to the team pays a minimum over $400k, the max salary for 2014 is $22,000,000. In 2009 the average salary for Women's Professional Soccer players was $32,000. We can idealize female athletes all day, but they simply don't have the same incentives as men to be selfish so it's not a telling comparison. Think about this, the University of Michigan is willing to pay the football coach ten times what they pay their own president[0]. [0] - http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcedelman/2014/12/18/university-of-michigan-offers-football-coach-nearly-10-times-president-salary/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcedelman/2014/12/18/universit...

crpatino 12y ago

I believe everything you said is correct. This is still a non issue. What the GP was complaining about is the political climate where it is natural for a scientist to openly state that women are better than men at X, while it would be career suicide to claim that men are better than women at Y.

kendallpark 12y ago
I agree with the statement on political climate. No argument there.

disputin 12y ago

Counter example: I worked with a woman who was such a team player that after literally every email she sent me she would walk over to my desk and disturb me to check that I got it and get my response. Maybe she had only ever used a one way email system. I could have done with a little less teamwork in that situation.

eru 12y ago

Just for clarity: which kind of football are you talking about?