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I don't know about "brutally quick". Anyone who's driven an M3, S4, or any similar performance sedan isn't going to be blown away by the speed of the Model S. I

by dice 12y ago

I don't know about "brutally quick". Anyone who's driven an M3, S4, or any similar performance sedan isn't going to be blown away by the speed of the Model S. It's fast, but it isn't mind-blowing.

PhantomGremlin 12y ago
Well, there's always the Tesla P85D, which they briefly mention in the article. That's the real performance version. It's quite a bit faster at 0-60 mph than the M3, roughly 3.2 seconds vs 3.9 seconds. And the Tesla is quiet. Here's a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QERGldfZA5A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QERGldfZA5A I don't know how well a Tesla corners compared to German or Italian competition.
- hvidgaard 12y ago
  It will never hold up on the track. The battery can only handle the max load for a short amount of time, before the computer limits the engine and make the car more of a sunday driver. That's not a problem for every day driving, it just isn't comparable to other supercars on the track. It however means that for normal usage, it means you have the efficiency of an EV and the "burst" ability of a supercar.
- cpswan 12y ago
  Cornering on the P85D is pretty amazing due to the low centre of mass. I got to drive it on public roads rather than the track, so I didn't get to push too hard, but even then I was surprised how quickly I could hustle it through bends (for comparison my usual drive is a BMW Z3M Coupe, and I've been lucky enough to drive most of the present M cars on the Spartanburg track).
- feld 12y ago
  It feels pretty great in corners because the suspension keeps the car level. I don't have experience driving many other higher end cars to compare it to, though.
benihana 12y ago
Agreed, 0-60 in 5 seconds isn't slow, but it's not brutally fast by any stretch of the imagination. I'm less interested in the speed and more interested in the handling. I am a BMW guy through and through because they are just so much fun to drive and just feel right. How would you compare taking a Model S through the twisties to say an M3 or even a regular 3 series?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- lifeformed 12y ago
  it's 3 seconds, not 5.
  - Domenic_S 12y ago
    No, the review was the non-P version which is the slower model.
  - benihana 12y ago
    That's the P version rated at 700hp or so, not the one reviewed. But I would absolute rate 0-60 in 3 seconds as brutally fast. That's Porsche and Ferrari territory.
- vetinari 12y ago
  Model S is a heavy car - with something over 2 tonnes, it is in weight category of 7er. 3er/M3 are different league in handling. Those extra 700 kg you simply cannot hide.
xanderstrike 12y ago
As someone who's driven both a 2011 M3 GTS and a 2012 Model S Performance around a track, they may be in the same class, and the around same speed on paper, but they feel very different. I'd classify both as brutal, but the Model S accelerates more explosively without seeming like it's even trying. I'm sure the relative silence has a lot to do with it but the car absolutely feels faster. It's difficult to explain, you've got to drive it to understand. Even if fuel economy, maintenance, reliability, etc. were not factors I would go with the Model S every day of the week.
- graycat 12y ago
  > I'm sure the relative silence has a lot to do with it but the car absolutely feels faster. It's difficult to explain, you've got to drive it to understand. See my earlier post in this thread with a series wound electric motor has infinite torque at stall (not yet rotating). So, standing still or moving slowly, an electric car, with a lot of power, can feel like it has instant, effortless, and amazing acceleration compared with an internal combustion engine that has to use gears and a clutch or torque converter. > fuel economy, maintenance, reliability, Yup, a Tesla could have some advantages especially since its engine really has only one moving part, the armature of the electric motor, or two for the D model. That's a long way from the number of parts in an internal combustion engine with camshaft, push rods, rocker arms, valve springs, valves, pistons, connecting rods, .... But, for a Tesla, there's a chance that in time the battery will need to be replaced. Long ago a Ford executive said, "You build me a good battery, and I will build you a good electric car.". Apparently Tesla has made a lot of progress on the battery, but it remains an issue, for cost, weight, charging time, and lifetime. But, no joke, an engine with just one moving part, and no transmission, has one heck of an advantage in maintenance and reliability.
  - janvidar 12y ago
    > But, no joke, an engine with just one moving part, and no transmission, has one heck of an advantage in maintenance and reliability. I guess you could say the same thing about the Wankel engine as well. The problem is that a traditional engine is tuned to work well enough within the life time of a car these days, so it isn't really a problem. Fuel economy wise though, the traditional piston engine outperforms the Wankel engine.

by dice 12y ago

I don't know about "brutally quick". Anyone who's driven an M3, S4, or any similar performance sedan isn't going to be blown away by the speed of the Model S. It's fast, but it isn't mind-blowing.

PhantomGremlin 12y ago

Well, there's always the Tesla P85D, which they briefly mention in the article. That's the real performance version. It's quite a bit faster at 0-60 mph than the M3, roughly 3.2 seconds vs 3.9 seconds. And the Tesla is quiet. Here's a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QERGldfZA5A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QERGldfZA5A I don't know how well a Tesla corners compared to German or Italian competition.

hvidgaard 12y ago
It will never hold up on the track. The battery can only handle the max load for a short amount of time, before the computer limits the engine and make the car more of a sunday driver. That's not a problem for every day driving, it just isn't comparable to other supercars on the track. It however means that for normal usage, it means you have the efficiency of an EV and the "burst" ability of a supercar.
cpswan 12y ago
Cornering on the P85D is pretty amazing due to the low centre of mass. I got to drive it on public roads rather than the track, so I didn't get to push too hard, but even then I was surprised how quickly I could hustle it through bends (for comparison my usual drive is a BMW Z3M Coupe, and I've been lucky enough to drive most of the present M cars on the Spartanburg track).
feld 12y ago
It feels pretty great in corners because the suspension keeps the car level. I don't have experience driving many other higher end cars to compare it to, though.

benihana 12y ago

Agreed, 0-60 in 5 seconds isn't slow, but it's not brutally fast by any stretch of the imagination. I'm less interested in the speed and more interested in the handling. I am a BMW guy through and through because they are just so much fun to drive and just feel right. How would you compare taking a Model S through the twisties to say an M3 or even a regular 3 series?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
lifeformed 12y ago
it's 3 seconds, not 5.
- Domenic_S 12y ago
  No, the review was the non-P version which is the slower model.
- benihana 12y ago
  That's the P version rated at 700hp or so, not the one reviewed. But I would absolute rate 0-60 in 3 seconds as brutally fast. That's Porsche and Ferrari territory.
vetinari 12y ago
Model S is a heavy car - with something over 2 tonnes, it is in weight category of 7er. 3er/M3 are different league in handling. Those extra 700 kg you simply cannot hide.

xanderstrike 12y ago

As someone who's driven both a 2011 M3 GTS and a 2012 Model S Performance around a track, they may be in the same class, and the around same speed on paper, but they feel very different. I'd classify both as brutal, but the Model S accelerates more explosively without seeming like it's even trying. I'm sure the relative silence has a lot to do with it but the car absolutely feels faster. It's difficult to explain, you've got to drive it to understand. Even if fuel economy, maintenance, reliability, etc. were not factors I would go with the Model S every day of the week.

graycat 12y ago
> I'm sure the relative silence has a lot to do with it but the car absolutely feels faster. It's difficult to explain, you've got to drive it to understand. See my earlier post in this thread with a series wound electric motor has infinite torque at stall (not yet rotating). So, standing still or moving slowly, an electric car, with a lot of power, can feel like it has instant, effortless, and amazing acceleration compared with an internal combustion engine that has to use gears and a clutch or torque converter. > fuel economy, maintenance, reliability, Yup, a Tesla could have some advantages especially since its engine really has only one moving part, the armature of the electric motor, or two for the D model. That's a long way from the number of parts in an internal combustion engine with camshaft, push rods, rocker arms, valve springs, valves, pistons, connecting rods, .... But, for a Tesla, there's a chance that in time the battery will need to be replaced. Long ago a Ford executive said, "You build me a good battery, and I will build you a good electric car.". Apparently Tesla has made a lot of progress on the battery, but it remains an issue, for cost, weight, charging time, and lifetime. But, no joke, an engine with just one moving part, and no transmission, has one heck of an advantage in maintenance and reliability.
- janvidar 12y ago
  > But, no joke, an engine with just one moving part, and no transmission, has one heck of an advantage in maintenance and reliability. I guess you could say the same thing about the Wankel engine as well. The problem is that a traditional engine is tuned to work well enough within the life time of a car these days, so it isn't really a problem. Fuel economy wise though, the traditional piston engine outperforms the Wankel engine.