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> Mr. Jang said that as time went on, the North began diverting high school students with the best math skills into a handful of top universities, including a m

by chroma 12y ago

> Mr. Jang said that as time went on, the North began diverting high school students with the best math skills into a handful of top universities, including a military school specializing in computer-based warfare called Mirim University, which he attended as a young army officer. I realize I'm not engaging the core topic being discussed, but stories like this are why I'm surprised people like Will Scott haven't gotten in trouble. (I don't want to single him out, but he's the best example I have at hand.) For the past two years, he's gone to North Korea to volunteer teaching computer science.[1][2] At best, his students' skills will be wasted on some silly Android apps praising the supreme leader. More likely, these students will go on to make software for less-than-ethical purposes: wargame simulation, nuclear explosion modeling, missile guidance systems, or network/server subversion. I'm not saying this software shouldn't exist, just that the world would be better-off if the DPRK had more difficulty writing it. And I'm surprised the State Department hasn't fined or revoked the passport of any American who has aided the DPRK in this manner. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8869265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8869265 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6829558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6829558

thejosh 12y ago
Yes, and that same argument can be made for pretty much any other country... why teach computer science to US, as they have shown they can't be trusted - they will probably end up in the NSA!
- burnstek 12y ago
  Not at all. In the US, we computer scientists have a wealth of opportunities to which we can apply our knowledge and education. Presumably in NK, you are limited to doing their government's bidding.
- chroma 12y ago
  Are you seriously comparing the NSA to North Korea? This is a country that starves and kills millions of its own people. They imprison, torture, and execute their citizens for being related to someone who watched South Korean television. It is quite likely the most harmful regime on the planet. Read some stories from North Korean defectors. Then let me know just how content you are with people contributing to the DPRK's education system. But to respond to your real argument: It's a matter of probabilities. The chance that an American programmer will work on software harmful to humanity is quite small. The chance that a North Korean programmer will do so is massive. Even if the person doesn't want to work on missile guidance or centrifuge control software, they can be ordered to, and their family can be held hostage. There is no such thing as a conscientious objector in North Korea.
  - gojock 12y ago
    > Are you seriously comparing the NSA to North Korea? This is a country that starves and kills millions of its own people. Great point - the USA only kills millions of other nations people[0][1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_sanctions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_sanctions [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
  - akg_67 12y ago
    "The chance that an American programmer will work on software harmful to humanity is quite small. The chance that a North Korean programmer will do so is massive." It is the same argument made by nuclear non-proliferation countries. Only responsible countries should own the nuclear weapons. Well, guess how that argument turned out. The only country to use nuclear weapon is the one calls itself responsible one. Along the lines of your argument, DPRK citizens shouldn't be learning physics, chemistry, mathematics, aerospace engineering, mechanical engineering, civil engineering and medical or any subject because they all can be used as "weapon" for nefarious purposes. Keeping the population of a country uneducated because you don't agree with the government running the country is discriminatory and racist. No person irrespective of race or belief or country of citizenship should be denied education.
    - chroma 12y ago
      Your line about nuclear proliferation is a total non-sequitur. The US of 1945 is not the US of today. Our ethics and standards have risen significantly in the past 65 years. You might as well call the US hypocritical for backing UN resolutions against racism because of segregation up to the 60's. > Along the lines of your argument, DPRK citizens shouldn't be learning physics, chemistry, mathematics, aerospace engineering, mechanical engineering, civil engineering and medical or any subject because they all can be used as "weapon" for nefarious purposes. Except for medicine, probably yes. See my other comment for why I think that is the case.[1] > Keeping the population of a country uneducated because you don't agree with the government running the country is discriminatory and racist. No person irrespective of race or belief or country of citizenship should be denied education. How is it racist? I have no ethical issues with South Koreans or North Korean defectors learning these things. I'm simply pointing out a concrete example of how, in some cases, education can be harmful on net. Simplifying it to, "Education is good." won't steer you wrong often. But when it does, the consequences can be horrific. And to say one doesn't agree with the DPRK is putting it far too mildly. Read Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea.[2] The stories will make you thankful to be in whatever country you live in. For many people, North Korea truly is hell on earth. It's far worse than anything Orwell wrote about. If the leaders of the DPRK could get away with it, they would rain fire on South Korea and the US tomorrow. The only thing stopping them is lack of ability. Educating their citizens helps them gain technology that will most likely be used to achieve the goals of the DPRK's leaders. That will almost certainly lead to more harm than good. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8910491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8910491 2. http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-North-ebook/dp/B002ZB26AO/ http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-North-eboo...
toufka 12y ago
That is a very scary argument. To deny education because it could be used in ways you may not like is a very unfortunate position to take. Education is likely the only way a system like North Korea's will ever fall short of a militarized take over - another horrible fate to wish on those same people. And were it to fall, an education is all that would permit their survival in the world at large. To deny individuals a modern education is a particularly cruel punishment - maybe more so to punish those who would wish to educate.
- chroma 12y ago
  I agree that it's a scary argument. That's why I was careful in how I put it forth. The problem is that many skills are dual-use. At some point, a threshold is reached where a student is more likely to use the knowledge to harm than to help. This threshold depends on the skill and the student. To use a hypothetical: Would you condone someone teaching particle physics in North Korea? How about biology? Chemistry? Turbine engineering? Teaching any of these would probably increase North Korea's ability to threaten and harm its people and the rest of the world. It's sad that this is the case, but it's hard to argue otherwise. Unfortunately, I seriously doubt education will help free North Korea. If you read the stories of defectors, you'll find that almost everyone in universities is indoctrinated. Also, because of how people are encouraged to report each other, no underground network of dissenters can exist. Even if 90% of North Koreans wanted to overthrow the government, anyone who voiced dissidence to a few friends would likely be reported and thrown in a prison camp (if not outright executed), along with their family. It doesn't take much to control many. I really wish it was as easy as, "Education is good." But there can be dire consequences to actions, even ones as typically benign as teaching others. It's important to have a finely-tuned sense of ethics, otherwise we risk harming people who we mean to help.
  - kimjonsegfault 12y ago
    What's scary is the level of your indoctrination. North Korea has been surviving decades in almost complete world isolation, because it opposes capitalism. It's not mordor, it's a society with a structure that is not compatible with western capitalism. Everything you think you know about has been filtered to hide any positive aspects of such a society and to exacerbate the negatives. This was done to Vietname, to China, USSR. This was done to Obama during the healthcare "debate". North Korea has withstood decades of economic isolation, and yet it lives and its people live much better than citizens of Somalia and other great capitalist nations, not that anyone would let you know. You're not freeing North Korea by isolating it and starving it, you are killing it, and the people. You say it doesn't tame much to control many, but this applies to the West as much as it does anywhere. You have a set of values, and you are in harmony with enough people, you can work for them, with them. The same applies in North Korea, and USSR (where I'm from). The country is a single company, the CEO might be eccentric, but people do have jobs, work hard, have education, healthcare and believe in communism. What they don't have is Hollywood, McDonnalds and Fox News. And this is why you want to "free them". They have nuclear weapons not because they are evil, but because they know what US does to countries people like you believe need to be freed.
a1a 12y ago
I disagree. I believe education is an excellent way to free the north korean people from the brainwashing machine that is the DPRK. More DPRK people with the hacker mindset (e.g. not just accepting answers but asking questions, a hunger for knowledge, etc) would in the long term be a really great thing for everyone but the leaders of DPRK.
- sandworm 12y ago
  I used to think that way, that education would inevitably lead people to more egalitarian belief structures. Then I spent a few years at school in the US. I met many very educated people (ie well beyond undergrad) that scared the heck out of me. It is very possible to have an advanced CS degree and still believe in a ridged class system.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    Yeah. I used to believe technical education will give you a particular outlook at the world, will make you a more careful thinker, etc. I don't believe that anymore. Here are some other things that I've seen going along with a CS degree: - you can have a CS degree and be a total and utter asshole (for some reason I though education makes people more polite) - you can have a CS degree and be an antivaxxer who sees vaccines as Illuminati's conspiracy (not joking here) - you can have a CS degree and not have an ounce of rational thinking in you - you can have a CS degree and not be able to code your way out of a paper bag I could list some more, but you get the picture.
danboarder 12y ago
Learning and knowledge are _good_things_, for people anywhere, including NK. If enough people are educated, it is feasable to expect they would push for regime change and more freedoms for themselves. I expect this will eventually happen in China as well where the cat is out of the bag and more and more people have an expectation of individual liberty, leading them to desire political freedom as well.
arcameron 12y ago
I think you've massively devalued an entire people based on the actions of their government... Let's not forget the great value and results of CS education in the US: - spying for pretty much everybody, regardless of location - drone guidance systems to kill people unlawfully - missile systems for air strikes on countries purported to have WMDs - millions of $ spent on silly apps that arguably do nothing to improve quality of life, whilst millions suffer and die of starvation Do you really know enough about North Korea's tech community to say that "More likely, these students will go on to make software for less-than-ethical purposes"?
- psykovsky 12y ago
  As an European I say we should stop the US from learning. They're getting dangerous, with their knowledge.
  - happyscrappy 12y ago
    >As an European I say we should stop the US from learning. They're getting dangerous, with their knowledge. Getting dangerous? The game is over, Europe has outsourced their intelligence gathering and show no indication of even wanting to try to catch up.
    - fapjacks 12y ago
      False.
    - psykovsky 12y ago
      I'm not sure catching up with such a level of human rights abuse is the right thing to do...
- cmdkeen 12y ago
  Given it spends around a third of its GDP on military activities, and is a thoroughly planned economy it seems a relatively straightforward inference to make.
turk- 12y ago
Do you really think Will Scott gave the DRPK the breakthroughs it needed in any of those areas? I think you would be delusional to think he set them up to significantly improve in these areas. The only thing holding the DRPK back is the fact the socio-economic situation in the country is in complete shambles. Not that lack of American Computer Science teachers. Plus, More than likely he (and others like him) are providing intel or participating in espionage on behalf of Western Governments.
- xordon 12y ago
  DPRK
ForHackernews 12y ago
I flatter myself that I was a pretty competent computer science student, but I'm certainly not a security researcher. I think you're overestimating how much basic computer science knowledge has any applicability to offensive black hat hacking. Your argument is close to "Nobody should teach basic chemistry in the middle east, because hey, terrorists might use that knowledge to make bombs."
Nanzikambe 12y ago
How do you feel about the proliferation of postnatal health education and its associated literature?
usbreply 12y ago
Stuxnet. American kids should not be allowed to get a computer science education.
- meowface 12y ago
  The problem is that a skilled programmer in North Korea may be forced into a government role where they will likely perform unethical work. In the US, the person must voluntarily choose to pursue such a role. (Though I would not consider Stuxnet unethical.)
  - Demiurge 12y ago
    Right, in US, the government will never force anyone to perform unethical work. That's an interesting assumption. What if a skilled programmer in North Korea volunteers to perform unethical work? What if a skilled programmer in US volunteers to perform unethical work? What if "ethics" simply depends on your country of origin? To be honest, what you and the grandparent post should be saying is that North Korea is the enemy, and to help the enemy in any way is "bad". Why pretend that you're helping the people of North Korea by not helping the people of North Korea so they can't help their country?
    - meowface 12y ago
      NK is not an enemy in the same way Iran might be. NK is a Stalinist regime in 2015. >Right, in US, the government will never force anyone to perform unethical work. That's an interesting assumption. I think it's a reasonable assumption. You can't be forced to join the military (unless there's a draft) or an intelligence agency, and if you work for one, you can't be forced to do something you don't want to do; you can just quit. They can threaten you with prosecution if you leak anything, but they can't make you do something you don't want to. In NK you can both be forced to work for an organization and you can be forced to do specific tasks you may not want to do, at risk of torture or death. >What if "ethics" simply depends on your country of origin? That is true of course. And no doubt there are going to be NK programmers who are ethical and do nothing but help their populace. Obviously many US programmers are performing unethical tasks daily as well. But again, in the US these will almost always be voluntary actions. I think educating NK citizens is a perfectly good idea, just there are certain topics that perhaps they should not be taught, due to their oppressive and Machiavellian regime.
acqq 12y ago
"I'm surprised people like Will Scott haven't gotten in trouble. (I don't want to single him out," You are still doing it by writing that, and actually you aren't suggesting that the trouble to him would come from DPRK, but you are "nicely" suggesting he should get "in trouble" in the US just for lecturing in DPRK. Basically claiming, without writing the words that you are "surprised" he isn't considered a "traitor": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
estefan 12y ago
> or network/server subversion. > > I'm not saying this software shouldn't exist... The world would be a better place if subversion didn't exist. As long as the North Koreans keep using it they won't get very far. Maybe Will Scott is funded by the CIA if he's promoting that over git...

by chroma 12y ago

thejosh 12y ago

Yes, and that same argument can be made for pretty much any other country... why teach computer science to US, as they have shown they can't be trusted - they will probably end up in the NSA!

burnstek 12y ago
Not at all. In the US, we computer scientists have a wealth of opportunities to which we can apply our knowledge and education. Presumably in NK, you are limited to doing their government's bidding.
chroma 12y ago
Are you seriously comparing the NSA to North Korea? This is a country that starves and kills millions of its own people. They imprison, torture, and execute their citizens for being related to someone who watched South Korean television. It is quite likely the most harmful regime on the planet. Read some stories from North Korean defectors. Then let me know just how content you are with people contributing to the DPRK's education system. But to respond to your real argument: It's a matter of probabilities. The chance that an American programmer will work on software harmful to humanity is quite small. The chance that a North Korean programmer will do so is massive. Even if the person doesn't want to work on missile guidance or centrifuge control software, they can be ordered to, and their family can be held hostage. There is no such thing as a conscientious objector in North Korea.
- gojock 12y ago
  > Are you seriously comparing the NSA to North Korea? This is a country that starves and kills millions of its own people. Great point - the USA only kills millions of other nations people[0][1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_sanctions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_sanctions [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
- akg_67 12y ago
  "The chance that an American programmer will work on software harmful to humanity is quite small. The chance that a North Korean programmer will do so is massive." It is the same argument made by nuclear non-proliferation countries. Only responsible countries should own the nuclear weapons. Well, guess how that argument turned out. The only country to use nuclear weapon is the one calls itself responsible one. Along the lines of your argument, DPRK citizens shouldn't be learning physics, chemistry, mathematics, aerospace engineering, mechanical engineering, civil engineering and medical or any subject because they all can be used as "weapon" for nefarious purposes. Keeping the population of a country uneducated because you don't agree with the government running the country is discriminatory and racist. No person irrespective of race or belief or country of citizenship should be denied education.
  - chroma 12y ago
    Your line about nuclear proliferation is a total non-sequitur. The US of 1945 is not the US of today. Our ethics and standards have risen significantly in the past 65 years. You might as well call the US hypocritical for backing UN resolutions against racism because of segregation up to the 60's. > Along the lines of your argument, DPRK citizens shouldn't be learning physics, chemistry, mathematics, aerospace engineering, mechanical engineering, civil engineering and medical or any subject because they all can be used as "weapon" for nefarious purposes. Except for medicine, probably yes. See my other comment for why I think that is the case.[1] > Keeping the population of a country uneducated because you don't agree with the government running the country is discriminatory and racist. No person irrespective of race or belief or country of citizenship should be denied education. How is it racist? I have no ethical issues with South Koreans or North Korean defectors learning these things. I'm simply pointing out a concrete example of how, in some cases, education can be harmful on net. Simplifying it to, "Education is good." won't steer you wrong often. But when it does, the consequences can be horrific. And to say one doesn't agree with the DPRK is putting it far too mildly. Read Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea.[2] The stories will make you thankful to be in whatever country you live in. For many people, North Korea truly is hell on earth. It's far worse than anything Orwell wrote about. If the leaders of the DPRK could get away with it, they would rain fire on South Korea and the US tomorrow. The only thing stopping them is lack of ability. Educating their citizens helps them gain technology that will most likely be used to achieve the goals of the DPRK's leaders. That will almost certainly lead to more harm than good. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8910491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8910491 2. http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-North-ebook/dp/B002ZB26AO/ http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-North-eboo...

toufka 12y ago

That is a very scary argument. To deny education because it could be used in ways you may not like is a very unfortunate position to take. Education is likely the only way a system like North Korea's will ever fall short of a militarized take over - another horrible fate to wish on those same people. And were it to fall, an education is all that would permit their survival in the world at large. To deny individuals a modern education is a particularly cruel punishment - maybe more so to punish those who would wish to educate.

chroma 12y ago
I agree that it's a scary argument. That's why I was careful in how I put it forth. The problem is that many skills are dual-use. At some point, a threshold is reached where a student is more likely to use the knowledge to harm than to help. This threshold depends on the skill and the student. To use a hypothetical: Would you condone someone teaching particle physics in North Korea? How about biology? Chemistry? Turbine engineering? Teaching any of these would probably increase North Korea's ability to threaten and harm its people and the rest of the world. It's sad that this is the case, but it's hard to argue otherwise. Unfortunately, I seriously doubt education will help free North Korea. If you read the stories of defectors, you'll find that almost everyone in universities is indoctrinated. Also, because of how people are encouraged to report each other, no underground network of dissenters can exist. Even if 90% of North Koreans wanted to overthrow the government, anyone who voiced dissidence to a few friends would likely be reported and thrown in a prison camp (if not outright executed), along with their family. It doesn't take much to control many. I really wish it was as easy as, "Education is good." But there can be dire consequences to actions, even ones as typically benign as teaching others. It's important to have a finely-tuned sense of ethics, otherwise we risk harming people who we mean to help.
- kimjonsegfault 12y ago
  What's scary is the level of your indoctrination. North Korea has been surviving decades in almost complete world isolation, because it opposes capitalism. It's not mordor, it's a society with a structure that is not compatible with western capitalism. Everything you think you know about has been filtered to hide any positive aspects of such a society and to exacerbate the negatives. This was done to Vietname, to China, USSR. This was done to Obama during the healthcare "debate". North Korea has withstood decades of economic isolation, and yet it lives and its people live much better than citizens of Somalia and other great capitalist nations, not that anyone would let you know. You're not freeing North Korea by isolating it and starving it, you are killing it, and the people. You say it doesn't tame much to control many, but this applies to the West as much as it does anywhere. You have a set of values, and you are in harmony with enough people, you can work for them, with them. The same applies in North Korea, and USSR (where I'm from). The country is a single company, the CEO might be eccentric, but people do have jobs, work hard, have education, healthcare and believe in communism. What they don't have is Hollywood, McDonnalds and Fox News. And this is why you want to "free them". They have nuclear weapons not because they are evil, but because they know what US does to countries people like you believe need to be freed.

a1a 12y ago

I disagree. I believe education is an excellent way to free the north korean people from the brainwashing machine that is the DPRK. More DPRK people with the hacker mindset (e.g. not just accepting answers but asking questions, a hunger for knowledge, etc) would in the long term be a really great thing for everyone but the leaders of DPRK.

sandworm 12y ago
I used to think that way, that education would inevitably lead people to more egalitarian belief structures. Then I spent a few years at school in the US. I met many very educated people (ie well beyond undergrad) that scared the heck out of me. It is very possible to have an advanced CS degree and still believe in a ridged class system.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  Yeah. I used to believe technical education will give you a particular outlook at the world, will make you a more careful thinker, etc. I don't believe that anymore. Here are some other things that I've seen going along with a CS degree: - you can have a CS degree and be a total and utter asshole (for some reason I though education makes people more polite) - you can have a CS degree and be an antivaxxer who sees vaccines as Illuminati's conspiracy (not joking here) - you can have a CS degree and not have an ounce of rational thinking in you - you can have a CS degree and not be able to code your way out of a paper bag I could list some more, but you get the picture.

danboarder 12y ago

Learning and knowledge are _good_things_, for people anywhere, including NK. If enough people are educated, it is feasable to expect they would push for regime change and more freedoms for themselves. I expect this will eventually happen in China as well where the cat is out of the bag and more and more people have an expectation of individual liberty, leading them to desire political freedom as well.

arcameron 12y ago

I think you've massively devalued an entire people based on the actions of their government... Let's not forget the great value and results of CS education in the US: - spying for pretty much everybody, regardless of location - drone guidance systems to kill people unlawfully - missile systems for air strikes on countries purported to have WMDs - millions of $ spent on silly apps that arguably do nothing to improve quality of life, whilst millions suffer and die of starvation Do you really know enough about North Korea's tech community to say that "More likely, these students will go on to make software for less-than-ethical purposes"?

psykovsky 12y ago
As an European I say we should stop the US from learning. They're getting dangerous, with their knowledge.
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  >As an European I say we should stop the US from learning. They're getting dangerous, with their knowledge. Getting dangerous? The game is over, Europe has outsourced their intelligence gathering and show no indication of even wanting to try to catch up.
  - fapjacks 12y ago
    False.
  - psykovsky 12y ago
    I'm not sure catching up with such a level of human rights abuse is the right thing to do...
cmdkeen 12y ago
Given it spends around a third of its GDP on military activities, and is a thoroughly planned economy it seems a relatively straightforward inference to make.

turk- 12y ago

Do you really think Will Scott gave the DRPK the breakthroughs it needed in any of those areas? I think you would be delusional to think he set them up to significantly improve in these areas. The only thing holding the DRPK back is the fact the socio-economic situation in the country is in complete shambles. Not that lack of American Computer Science teachers. Plus, More than likely he (and others like him) are providing intel or participating in espionage on behalf of Western Governments.

xordon 12y ago
DPRK

ForHackernews 12y ago

I flatter myself that I was a pretty competent computer science student, but I'm certainly not a security researcher. I think you're overestimating how much basic computer science knowledge has any applicability to offensive black hat hacking. Your argument is close to "Nobody should teach basic chemistry in the middle east, because hey, terrorists might use that knowledge to make bombs."

Nanzikambe 12y ago

How do you feel about the proliferation of postnatal health education and its associated literature?

usbreply 12y ago

Stuxnet. American kids should not be allowed to get a computer science education.

meowface 12y ago
The problem is that a skilled programmer in North Korea may be forced into a government role where they will likely perform unethical work. In the US, the person must voluntarily choose to pursue such a role. (Though I would not consider Stuxnet unethical.)
- Demiurge 12y ago
  Right, in US, the government will never force anyone to perform unethical work. That's an interesting assumption. What if a skilled programmer in North Korea volunteers to perform unethical work? What if a skilled programmer in US volunteers to perform unethical work? What if "ethics" simply depends on your country of origin? To be honest, what you and the grandparent post should be saying is that North Korea is the enemy, and to help the enemy in any way is "bad". Why pretend that you're helping the people of North Korea by not helping the people of North Korea so they can't help their country?
  - meowface 12y ago
    NK is not an enemy in the same way Iran might be. NK is a Stalinist regime in 2015. >Right, in US, the government will never force anyone to perform unethical work. That's an interesting assumption. I think it's a reasonable assumption. You can't be forced to join the military (unless there's a draft) or an intelligence agency, and if you work for one, you can't be forced to do something you don't want to do; you can just quit. They can threaten you with prosecution if you leak anything, but they can't make you do something you don't want to. In NK you can both be forced to work for an organization and you can be forced to do specific tasks you may not want to do, at risk of torture or death. >What if "ethics" simply depends on your country of origin? That is true of course. And no doubt there are going to be NK programmers who are ethical and do nothing but help their populace. Obviously many US programmers are performing unethical tasks daily as well. But again, in the US these will almost always be voluntary actions. I think educating NK citizens is a perfectly good idea, just there are certain topics that perhaps they should not be taught, due to their oppressive and Machiavellian regime.

acqq 12y ago

"I'm surprised people like Will Scott haven't gotten in trouble. (I don't want to single him out," You are still doing it by writing that, and actually you aren't suggesting that the trouble to him would come from DPRK, but you are "nicely" suggesting he should get "in trouble" in the US just for lecturing in DPRK. Basically claiming, without writing the words that you are "surprised" he isn't considered a "traitor": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

estefan 12y ago

> or network/server subversion. > > I'm not saying this software shouldn't exist... The world would be a better place if subversion didn't exist. As long as the North Koreans keep using it they won't get very far. Maybe Will Scott is funded by the CIA if he's promoting that over git...