4 ms·

My first child turned 14 months yesterday. For the duration of his life I've operated on 5-7 hours total every night. I (and my co.) were just acqui-hired, bu

by nkozyra 12y ago

My first child turned 14 months yesterday. For the duration of his life I've operated on 5-7 hours total every night. I (and my co.) were just acqui-hired, but prior to that I was in the 5th year of startup hustle, which became infinitely harder with a newborn. The difference is that I appreciate the value of sleep more than I did before. During a near-acquisition a few years ago I was sleeping 3 hours a night thinking this was the solution to deadlines. For anyone who has lived through that first 6 months or so, you know you never really sleep. Even if you get 6 hours, it's peppered with wakeups, rockings, diaper changes and feedings. Last night I slept about 5 hours and I feel the way I used to feel with 8. This could be a function of age, but I feel like my body is acclimating to an abbreviated sleep schedule. This has led me to believe that people who "need" 8 hours of sleep can train their body to need less. That said, if you can sleep, for god's sake do it. Once this kid starts sleeping past 6:15 I'm going to go nuts on the weekends.

UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
No no no no and no. You can't train your body to need less sleep. Sleep deprivation actually effects your judgment on how much sleep you need. http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1690 http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1690
- nkozyra 12y ago
  "Affects." Score one for the "sleep deprived." :) First, literally none of the sources in that link works. Every single one is a 404. Second, less sleep != "sleep deprivation." This assumes that people never get used to sleeping more than is physiologically necessary. I sleep 5.5 -> 6.5 hours a night. Plenty of people do. But I used to sleep 8+ hours a night in my mid-20s and anything less would leave me feeling worthless. Most topics on this talk about 6-8 hours of sleep being the "sweet spot," so it's not like I'm talking 3 hours of sleep here. I'm saying that you can move around a little bit and your body will adjust, much like it adjusts to thousands of other changes in environment. You can't go without eating, but you can eat less and your body will respond, for example. Humans are more pliable than we give ourselves credit.
  - ivanhoe 12y ago
    I rarely sleep longer than that, but it's not a training, simply comes with the age (I'm 40). Real question is how long would you sleep now if you could sleep as much as you want? If every now and then you need to get a day of sleeping longer to re-energize, or you regularly have periods in night when you just can't keep your eyes open for a second longer, that probably means that you are not sleeping enough. On the other hand if you function like this in a stable manner, without sleeping "crisis", it's quite possible that you just don't need more than those 6-7h.
    - nkozyra 12y ago
      I considered the age thing, but given the rapid paradigm shift here (pre-kid, post-kid), I think that can be dismissed. That I can feel the same with 2 - 2.5 hours less sleep than I did a year and a half ago suggests to me that I have conditioned myself.
  - UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
    Thats actually not the article I meant to link to but I can't find it again, oh well. Anyways, its obvious that sleep needs vary amoung different people and vary with age. Most people sleep less the older they get. Either way, sleep is very important to overall health and safety. People think they need less than they do. And I'm not actually sleep deprived, my body just is broken. I have a debilitating sleep disorder. I take (prescribed) stimulants to get through the day, but it only just takes the edge off. I wish I could wake up feeling rested.
japhyr 12y ago
My kid will turn 4 in March. It's much better these days than when he was an infant, but there are still many interrupted nights - dreams, peeing, just coming in to say he's awake. It's sweet; I wouldn't give it up for the word. Some day he'll be too old to crawl into bed with us, so I enjoy every night he comes to visit us now. What I'm finding, though, is that when I get uninterrupted sleep now, it's amazingly refreshing. I think I know how to operate on little sleep for extended periods of time now. When I get to sleep uninterrupted, I feel amazing energy the next day. And when I string together a few uninterrupted nights, it's even better. I hope to keep the healthy sense of urgency I have in my work time now. Having a young kid keeps me very focused and efficient in my work time, because I know I can't just put in extra hours to get things done. I hope I keep that healthy urgency, but I'm aware it could slip away as I take full nights of sleep for granted again.
- nkozyra 12y ago
  I agree with much of this (and eagerly await the next few years). The difference between sleeping 6 hours uninterrupted and sleeping 6 hours with 2 interruptions is so dramatic. The cumulative effect of sleep deprivation takes awhile to really hit - the first three months or so I thought I was "fine" and then it really started to compound. Mood was really the most negatively hit aspect of my life. It's fair to say my appreciation of sleep is perhaps more psychologically-induced than physiological. Happens often when something is taken for granted and then ripped from under your feet for some duration. :)
- mcmatterson 12y ago
  Also a parent of a 4yo, agreed 100%. I notice a difference even if I don't get woken up at night (which thankfully is a rarity). I think it's mostly a matter of how I get woken up in the morning (she's basically our alarm clock), even though I get up at roughly the same time when she's not around. I've also noticed that the rare nights when she's completely out of our care (at her grandparents), my quality of sleep is even better still. I wonder if there isn't some sort of psychological stress that affects sleep quality when there's a kid in the next room who's your responsibility.
  - 12y ago

by nkozyra 12y ago

UrMomReadsHN 12y ago

No no no no and no. You can't train your body to need less sleep. Sleep deprivation actually effects your judgment on how much sleep you need. http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1690 http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1690

nkozyra 12y ago
"Affects." Score one for the "sleep deprived." :) First, literally none of the sources in that link works. Every single one is a 404. Second, less sleep != "sleep deprivation." This assumes that people never get used to sleeping more than is physiologically necessary. I sleep 5.5 -> 6.5 hours a night. Plenty of people do. But I used to sleep 8+ hours a night in my mid-20s and anything less would leave me feeling worthless. Most topics on this talk about 6-8 hours of sleep being the "sweet spot," so it's not like I'm talking 3 hours of sleep here. I'm saying that you can move around a little bit and your body will adjust, much like it adjusts to thousands of other changes in environment. You can't go without eating, but you can eat less and your body will respond, for example. Humans are more pliable than we give ourselves credit.
- ivanhoe 12y ago
  I rarely sleep longer than that, but it's not a training, simply comes with the age (I'm 40). Real question is how long would you sleep now if you could sleep as much as you want? If every now and then you need to get a day of sleeping longer to re-energize, or you regularly have periods in night when you just can't keep your eyes open for a second longer, that probably means that you are not sleeping enough. On the other hand if you function like this in a stable manner, without sleeping "crisis", it's quite possible that you just don't need more than those 6-7h.
  - nkozyra 12y ago
    I considered the age thing, but given the rapid paradigm shift here (pre-kid, post-kid), I think that can be dismissed. That I can feel the same with 2 - 2.5 hours less sleep than I did a year and a half ago suggests to me that I have conditioned myself.
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  Thats actually not the article I meant to link to but I can't find it again, oh well. Anyways, its obvious that sleep needs vary amoung different people and vary with age. Most people sleep less the older they get. Either way, sleep is very important to overall health and safety. People think they need less than they do. And I'm not actually sleep deprived, my body just is broken. I have a debilitating sleep disorder. I take (prescribed) stimulants to get through the day, but it only just takes the edge off. I wish I could wake up feeling rested.

japhyr 12y ago

My kid will turn 4 in March. It's much better these days than when he was an infant, but there are still many interrupted nights - dreams, peeing, just coming in to say he's awake. It's sweet; I wouldn't give it up for the word. Some day he'll be too old to crawl into bed with us, so I enjoy every night he comes to visit us now. What I'm finding, though, is that when I get uninterrupted sleep now, it's amazingly refreshing. I think I know how to operate on little sleep for extended periods of time now. When I get to sleep uninterrupted, I feel amazing energy the next day. And when I string together a few uninterrupted nights, it's even better. I hope to keep the healthy sense of urgency I have in my work time now. Having a young kid keeps me very focused and efficient in my work time, because I know I can't just put in extra hours to get things done. I hope I keep that healthy urgency, but I'm aware it could slip away as I take full nights of sleep for granted again.

nkozyra 12y ago
I agree with much of this (and eagerly await the next few years). The difference between sleeping 6 hours uninterrupted and sleeping 6 hours with 2 interruptions is so dramatic. The cumulative effect of sleep deprivation takes awhile to really hit - the first three months or so I thought I was "fine" and then it really started to compound. Mood was really the most negatively hit aspect of my life. It's fair to say my appreciation of sleep is perhaps more psychologically-induced than physiological. Happens often when something is taken for granted and then ripped from under your feet for some duration. :)
mcmatterson 12y ago
Also a parent of a 4yo, agreed 100%. I notice a difference even if I don't get woken up at night (which thankfully is a rarity). I think it's mostly a matter of how I get woken up in the morning (she's basically our alarm clock), even though I get up at roughly the same time when she's not around. I've also noticed that the rare nights when she's completely out of our care (at her grandparents), my quality of sleep is even better still. I wonder if there isn't some sort of psychological stress that affects sleep quality when there's a kid in the next room who's your responsibility.
- 12y ago