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It's an absolute and utter joke to call for the demilitarization of the Internet on the part of the US government, in the wake of the Sony attack. Nation state

It's an absolute and utter joke to call for the demilitarization of the Internet on the part of the US government, in the wake of the Sony attack. Nation states are waging war on US companies. Regardless of what you think or believe in the US policy abroad, the US needs to find a way to defend its citizens from attack.

AnthonyMouse 12y ago
In what way is militarization going to defend against the likes of the Sony attack? The government is not equipped to handle this kind of security. You can't post marines in US data centers to keep out foreign attackers, that's not how it works. Offense isn't a defense; MAD doesn't work when you can't reliably attribute attacks or the attacker doesn't have any meaningful infrastructure to retaliate against. The best thing the government could do in this context is provide money for public security research and for security audits of popular software. But that has nothing to do with the military or offensive capability, and the government seems intent on going the other way with their renewed attacks on the widespread use of encryption.
- diminoten 12y ago
  Private companies shouldn't be going to war against nation states. The US government should be able to defend itself and its citizens from attacks by foreign nations. Maybe you're right and the answer is to let private companies wage wars against nations, but right now US government agencies have to sit on their hands due to a lack of direction from congress on these issues. There is no RoE for cyberwar. There really ought to be.
  - AnthonyMouse 12y ago
    It isn't a war. Nobody dies. There is nothing for US government agencies to do. When a bank gets robbed because they held their money in a cardboard box instead of a vault, the question is not what the FBI can do to prevent that. The location of the problem is not the government. The location of the problem is the cardboard box.
    - diminoten 12y ago
      What? These aren't some random bank robbers, these are entire countries. What the hell do I pay the US government for, if not to protect me from other nations? No one even has remotely enough budget to deal with foreign nations attacking them. Not Google, not Microsoft, nobody.
      - AnthonyMouse 12y ago
        > These aren't some random bank robbers, these are entire countries. Sony's annual revenue is more than North Korea's GDP. That there can be a legitimate question as to whether the Sony attack was carried out by North Korea or some individual with a grudge probably puts it into the proper context. > What the hell do I pay the US government for, if not to protect me from other nations? That's a fair point; maybe we shouldn't pay them as much. > No one even has remotely enough budget to deal with foreign nations attacking them. Not Google, not Microsoft, nobody. So budget is the issue then? Maybe you're on to something here -- we can cut the NSA's budget and give the money to Google and Microsoft and other tech companies so they can use it to improve security.
        diminoten 12y ago
        I'm glad you think you can spitball solutions to global issues better than folks who do it for a living. That must feel good, for you.
        AnthonyMouse 12y ago
        Right, sorry, I was mistaking this for a democracy. We should definitely just do whatever the man from the government said and not think about it too hard. But remind me again how the military is going to defend against the likes of the Sony attack?
        diminoten 12y ago
        Well, considering this is a representative democracy, we actually kind of should do what the folks we elect to tell us what to do say we should do. If we don't like what they're telling us to do, we can always pick different people. But anyway, the military isn't going to do the same thing they've always done with intelligence -- liaise with civilian government orgs to gather intel and ultimately launch operations based on that intel.

AnthonyMouse 12y ago

In what way is militarization going to defend against the likes of the Sony attack? The government is not equipped to handle this kind of security. You can't post marines in US data centers to keep out foreign attackers, that's not how it works. Offense isn't a defense; MAD doesn't work when you can't reliably attribute attacks or the attacker doesn't have any meaningful infrastructure to retaliate against. The best thing the government could do in this context is provide money for public security research and for security audits of popular software. But that has nothing to do with the military or offensive capability, and the government seems intent on going the other way with their renewed attacks on the widespread use of encryption.

diminoten 12y ago
Private companies shouldn't be going to war against nation states. The US government should be able to defend itself and its citizens from attacks by foreign nations. Maybe you're right and the answer is to let private companies wage wars against nations, but right now US government agencies have to sit on their hands due to a lack of direction from congress on these issues. There is no RoE for cyberwar. There really ought to be.
- AnthonyMouse 12y ago
  It isn't a war. Nobody dies. There is nothing for US government agencies to do. When a bank gets robbed because they held their money in a cardboard box instead of a vault, the question is not what the FBI can do to prevent that. The location of the problem is not the government. The location of the problem is the cardboard box.
  - diminoten 12y ago
    What? These aren't some random bank robbers, these are entire countries. What the hell do I pay the US government for, if not to protect me from other nations? No one even has remotely enough budget to deal with foreign nations attacking them. Not Google, not Microsoft, nobody.
    - AnthonyMouse 12y ago
      > These aren't some random bank robbers, these are entire countries. Sony's annual revenue is more than North Korea's GDP. That there can be a legitimate question as to whether the Sony attack was carried out by North Korea or some individual with a grudge probably puts it into the proper context. > What the hell do I pay the US government for, if not to protect me from other nations? That's a fair point; maybe we shouldn't pay them as much. > No one even has remotely enough budget to deal with foreign nations attacking them. Not Google, not Microsoft, nobody. So budget is the issue then? Maybe you're on to something here -- we can cut the NSA's budget and give the money to Google and Microsoft and other tech companies so they can use it to improve security.
      - diminoten 12y ago
        I'm glad you think you can spitball solutions to global issues better than folks who do it for a living. That must feel good, for you.
        AnthonyMouse 12y ago
        Right, sorry, I was mistaking this for a democracy. We should definitely just do whatever the man from the government said and not think about it too hard. But remind me again how the military is going to defend against the likes of the Sony attack?
        diminoten 12y ago
        Well, considering this is a representative democracy, we actually kind of should do what the folks we elect to tell us what to do say we should do. If we don't like what they're telling us to do, we can always pick different people. But anyway, the military isn't going to do the same thing they've always done with intelligence -- liaise with civilian government orgs to gather intel and ultimately launch operations based on that intel.