3 ms·

I find it works best to use something the "Average/non-tech" person will surely understand: "What if there were cameras in your house that recorded everything

by smtddr 12y ago

I find it works best to use something the "Average/non-tech" person will surely understand: "What if there were cameras in your house that recorded everything you did & said, but the government promised you the footage would only be reviewed in the case that they suspect you committed a crime. How would you feel about that?" I've gotten a lot of mileage from this metaphor myself. The response is usually silence while they internally question their worldview or something. Never gotten a counter argument, nor anyone replying with "I'd be okay with that". Would be interested if HN could poke a hole in this so I can patch it. :)

FLUX-YOU 12y ago
I might start responding with: "Oh, I think it will be a great idea. The government will see how good of a citizen I am and how much I learn on my own, and perhaps, if I'm lucky, they'll give me a job so that I can stop cooking the rats in my walls."
- deleted 12y ago
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- elpachuco 12y ago
  Not a counter argument at all. You've just shown that any more time on you will be wasted. There will always be types like you. Nothing to do but write you off.
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snowwrestler 12y ago
This metaphor has worked well for me too, to show people that they already expect there to be limits on what the government can do to keep people safe--even though they might have not have realized it. So it's good as a throwaway metaphor for illustrating that concept, but it's not great for arguing against surveillance, because Internet traffic is not the same thing as getting dressed every morning. Most people get a lot less worked up about email and web surfing than being naked.
- smtddr 12y ago
  Cool, a counter. Perhaps I'll modify it to only be multiple microphones.
nlh 12y ago
I agree with that perspective completely. The problem is that the people who are generally the most blindly pro-government say something like: "I've got no problem with that. I have nothing to hide." (I have a friend who says _exactly_ that.) But at that point you really can't keep the argument/discussion going, because you're dealing with someone who clearly says one thing and would act differently. I'm sure if the camera crew arrived and started drilling in his house he'd change his tune, but what can you do short of that. The problem with debating with a lot of people, sadly.

by smtddr 12y ago

FLUX-YOU 12y ago

I might start responding with: "Oh, I think it will be a great idea. The government will see how good of a citizen I am and how much I learn on my own, and perhaps, if I'm lucky, they'll give me a job so that I can stop cooking the rats in my walls."

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
elpachuco 12y ago
Not a counter argument at all. You've just shown that any more time on you will be wasted. There will always be types like you. Nothing to do but write you off.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

snowwrestler 12y ago

This metaphor has worked well for me too, to show people that they already expect there to be limits on what the government can do to keep people safe--even though they might have not have realized it. So it's good as a throwaway metaphor for illustrating that concept, but it's not great for arguing against surveillance, because Internet traffic is not the same thing as getting dressed every morning. Most people get a lot less worked up about email and web surfing than being naked.

smtddr 12y ago
Cool, a counter. Perhaps I'll modify it to only be multiple microphones.

nlh 12y ago

I agree with that perspective completely. The problem is that the people who are generally the most blindly pro-government say something like: "I've got no problem with that. I have nothing to hide." (I have a friend who says _exactly_ that.) But at that point you really can't keep the argument/discussion going, because you're dealing with someone who clearly says one thing and would act differently. I'm sure if the camera crew arrived and started drilling in his house he'd change his tune, but what can you do short of that. The problem with debating with a lot of people, sadly.