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Maybe he doesn't want to spend his time or his energy needlessly tinkering with a system for which the manufacturer doesn't give a damn about supporting linux,

Maybe he doesn't want to spend his time or his energy needlessly tinkering with a system for which the manufacturer doesn't give a damn about supporting linux, despite having used the code to build their own, proprietary operating system. All these issues could also be solved if Apple opened up their hardware. We would also collectively have many more hours to develop other FLOSS software. Why are you putting the onus of blame on OP?

GuiA 12y ago
I have a hard time understanding the logical reasoning behind your post, but would love to. Are you implying that Apple went against the terms of a license under which code they used was placed? Or are you implying that even when you fully respect a license, you additionally have a moral obligation to follow certain rules unwritten in the license (which include opening up hardware, according to your post)?
- sroerick 12y ago
  Neither. I was responding to the parent comment, which was implying that OP was somehow shirking his duties as a Linux user by not using hardware with broken driver support. I was suggesting that OP has better things to do than fix drivers that Apple couldn't give a damn about supporting.
  - fit2rule 12y ago
    My response to the OP was not predicated on his/her personal non-desire to contribute to the expansion of Linux capabilities, but more his call for people "to just give up because its not worth it", which is a specious position for any hacker to be in, imho ..
    - rosser 12y ago
      Not everyone is a hacker. Not everyone who runs Linux is a hacker. Not everyone who wants to run Linux on a retina MBP is a hacker. Not everyone who's a hacker has "improving the usability of Linux on Apple hardware" among their driving priorities. Your suggestion that someone who doesn't isn't is what's specious. "No true Scotsman," and all... I'm presently using the very machine TFA is talking about, and would love to be running Linux, but I have far more compelling things to do with my time than to fuck with drivers. I switched from Linux on a ThinkPad (x61t, for reference, supposedly very well supported) to OSX on a Mac precisely because I found myself spending more time twiddling configs and drivers to get such basic things as sound and wifi working than actually, you know, working. I don't think there's anything wrong with having priorities other than the ones you're espousing, and I don't think it's reasonable or fair to expect otherwise.
      - fit2rule 12y ago
        At a persona level, sure. (BTW, I am running Linux on that same machine.) But that's not what this is about - he was actively discouraging people from even trying.
nsajko 12y ago
Apple used Linux code for Mac OS?
- Mikeb85 12y ago
  Here's a list of opensource bits Apple uses: https://www.apple.com/opensource/ https://www.apple.com/opensource/ Some BSD stuff, some stuff associated more with Linux, some random stuff. They of course have also supported a few of the projects.
- vacri 12y ago
  This is where the semantics of GNU/Linux become important, instead of just 'linux'. I doubt there's much linux (kernel) code in OSX...
  - sroerick 12y ago
    You are right about this. Thanks for pointing out this nuance.
fit2rule 12y ago
>Why are you putting the onus of blame on OP? Because he's actively discouraging people, rather pessimistically, from trying to improve the situation. How did Linux get to where it is today? Was it by people saying "oh, it doesn't work, so why bother, its just all such a huge hassle" .. or was it more like "you know what would be cool? If Linux ran on this great hardware .. that'd be cool .. I'll spend some time on it". Honestly, is this "Hacker News" or is it "Lamer News"? The folks downvoting and justifying subservience to the OSX hegemony over forward progress for the Linux collective must not realize just how nice it will be, one day soon, to be running the greatest OS ever made on the finest quality laptop hardware made, so far. Hmm .. that's rather an unusual hubris. Disclaimer: been running Linux since day one. Had it running on my 4 Apple machines for 5+ years too. I don't see the problems a lot of folks do .. but then again, thats because I scratched the itch of wanting to escape from the OSX hegemony.
- sroerick 12y ago
  This is a good point, and I thank you for contributing it. Generally, I'd disagree that Apple makes great hardware. I've owned an iBook and 2 MacBooks, and I think Apple generally produces shoddy quality products. The exception being their trackpads, which are really quite exceptional. I still think Apple deserves criticism for locking down both their hardware and their software. Edit: To be fair, I've never owned a retina MacBook.
  - fit2rule 12y ago
    The MBP Retina is one of the finest machines out there, and I've looked. If there is a manufacturer who can compete with the quality of the MBP Pro, while also giving superlative Linux support, I'd love to know. So far, no dice - close, but no cigar. The Google Chromebook Pixel is pretty darn close, but doesn't seem to be getting the upgrades and forward-thinking features that the MBP Pro has. That said, I eagerly await the day that Apple are bumped down a rung or two. I'll be quite happy to abandon the MBP Pro for something better - when it exists. Trouble is, it doesn't yet.
- tolmasky 12y ago
  Alternatively, if people devoted their time to writing drivers/fixing issues on platforms where the creators were happy to take their contributions (i.e. any pc manufacturer that has no vested interest in a competing OS), then the improvements might be longer lived.

GuiA 12y ago

I have a hard time understanding the logical reasoning behind your post, but would love to. Are you implying that Apple went against the terms of a license under which code they used was placed? Or are you implying that even when you fully respect a license, you additionally have a moral obligation to follow certain rules unwritten in the license (which include opening up hardware, according to your post)?

sroerick 12y ago
Neither. I was responding to the parent comment, which was implying that OP was somehow shirking his duties as a Linux user by not using hardware with broken driver support. I was suggesting that OP has better things to do than fix drivers that Apple couldn't give a damn about supporting.
- fit2rule 12y ago
  My response to the OP was not predicated on his/her personal non-desire to contribute to the expansion of Linux capabilities, but more his call for people "to just give up because its not worth it", which is a specious position for any hacker to be in, imho ..
  - rosser 12y ago
    Not everyone is a hacker. Not everyone who runs Linux is a hacker. Not everyone who wants to run Linux on a retina MBP is a hacker. Not everyone who's a hacker has "improving the usability of Linux on Apple hardware" among their driving priorities. Your suggestion that someone who doesn't isn't is what's specious. "No true Scotsman," and all... I'm presently using the very machine TFA is talking about, and would love to be running Linux, but I have far more compelling things to do with my time than to fuck with drivers. I switched from Linux on a ThinkPad (x61t, for reference, supposedly very well supported) to OSX on a Mac precisely because I found myself spending more time twiddling configs and drivers to get such basic things as sound and wifi working than actually, you know, working. I don't think there's anything wrong with having priorities other than the ones you're espousing, and I don't think it's reasonable or fair to expect otherwise.
    - fit2rule 12y ago
      At a persona level, sure. (BTW, I am running Linux on that same machine.) But that's not what this is about - he was actively discouraging people from even trying.

nsajko 12y ago

Apple used Linux code for Mac OS?

Mikeb85 12y ago
Here's a list of opensource bits Apple uses: https://www.apple.com/opensource/ https://www.apple.com/opensource/ Some BSD stuff, some stuff associated more with Linux, some random stuff. They of course have also supported a few of the projects.
vacri 12y ago
This is where the semantics of GNU/Linux become important, instead of just 'linux'. I doubt there's much linux (kernel) code in OSX...
- sroerick 12y ago
  You are right about this. Thanks for pointing out this nuance.

fit2rule 12y ago

>Why are you putting the onus of blame on OP? Because he's actively discouraging people, rather pessimistically, from trying to improve the situation. How did Linux get to where it is today? Was it by people saying "oh, it doesn't work, so why bother, its just all such a huge hassle" .. or was it more like "you know what would be cool? If Linux ran on this great hardware .. that'd be cool .. I'll spend some time on it". Honestly, is this "Hacker News" or is it "Lamer News"? The folks downvoting and justifying subservience to the OSX hegemony over forward progress for the Linux collective must not realize just how nice it will be, one day soon, to be running the greatest OS ever made on the finest quality laptop hardware made, so far. Hmm .. that's rather an unusual hubris. Disclaimer: been running Linux since day one. Had it running on my 4 Apple machines for 5+ years too. I don't see the problems a lot of folks do .. but then again, thats because I scratched the itch of wanting to escape from the OSX hegemony.

sroerick 12y ago
This is a good point, and I thank you for contributing it. Generally, I'd disagree that Apple makes great hardware. I've owned an iBook and 2 MacBooks, and I think Apple generally produces shoddy quality products. The exception being their trackpads, which are really quite exceptional. I still think Apple deserves criticism for locking down both their hardware and their software. Edit: To be fair, I've never owned a retina MacBook.
- fit2rule 12y ago
  The MBP Retina is one of the finest machines out there, and I've looked. If there is a manufacturer who can compete with the quality of the MBP Pro, while also giving superlative Linux support, I'd love to know. So far, no dice - close, but no cigar. The Google Chromebook Pixel is pretty darn close, but doesn't seem to be getting the upgrades and forward-thinking features that the MBP Pro has. That said, I eagerly await the day that Apple are bumped down a rung or two. I'll be quite happy to abandon the MBP Pro for something better - when it exists. Trouble is, it doesn't yet.
tolmasky 12y ago
Alternatively, if people devoted their time to writing drivers/fixing issues on platforms where the creators were happy to take their contributions (i.e. any pc manufacturer that has no vested interest in a competing OS), then the improvements might be longer lived.