4 ms·

> What if the idea of work itself is what you dislike? In one of the economic courses I took, the Professor posed this very question. Apparently Karl Marx had

by dxbydt 12y ago

> What if the idea of work itself is what you dislike? In one of the economic courses I took, the Professor posed this very question. Apparently Karl Marx had also opined along these lines - how would a society incentivize someone who only likes to build sand castles ? He can't monetize the sandcastle because the waves wash them out, so he just builds another one & another one & so on. Sometimes I think programming is like that. You write some code in some language & 5 years later write the same thing in some other language & then another 5 years later...I am pretty sure much of the Scala I write these days is simply something I've written in my early teens in QBasic. We're just building sandcastles that time will wash off.

stegosaurus 12y ago
On the incentives point, it seems to me that 'we' as a society focus far too much on money and expect it to paper over the gaps that employment inevitably causes. Finish after your children leave school? Money -> childcare. Can't get time off to cook for yourself more? Money -> restaurant meals. Small stuff. Office located in a stupid place like downtown, forcing _everyone_ into a silly commute. Lack of parking spaces.
- eru 12y ago
  Can't you move downtown?
  - tonyedgecombe 12y ago
    Money -> housing
    - eru 12y ago
      Sorry, what does that mean?
      - tonyedgecombe 12y ago
        It means that your solution is exactly like the problems the parent was enumerating, throw money at it.
        eru 12y ago
        Oh, sure. That's what money is for.
        stegosaurus 12y ago
        The point I was trying to make is that money is not a cure-all. Yes, with a high enough salary, you may be able to move downtown. But is that actually a replacement for a small-ish home with a yard, a drive, potentially a garage, etc? Of course not. I don't think it's necessary for there to be a choice between 'live downtown' and 'live far out but have a horrible commute'. As far as I can tell, lots of 'business-to-business' style companies don't need to locate their office right in the centre of town. Neither does a dev shop that doesn't have retail clients that walk in on foot. But they do, a lot. Why? Am I missing something blindingly obvious? Zoning laws? Owner can afford a mansion around the corner so doesn't care? It's a mystery to me; it really is.
  - stegosaurus 12y ago
    In many places, not really. If you can even afford it, it'd mean living in an apartment or sharing a place. And probably renting - the UK rental market is a nightmare in my experience. Fine if you're doing it out of choice or prefer it, but when it's basically a condition of employment, it's too much of an encroachment upon home life to me. I love having a garden. I like having the space to tinker with a vehicle. I like my home to be in a reasonably quiet area not buzzing with nightlife, and so forth. Like I mentioned in the other post - many probably see it as an entitlement issue, but I think that's fundamentally flawed. I don't think it's wrong to believe that you should be able to control the time you spend outside work. For a while I managed to get by in life by exercising what I can only really describe as thought control. I figured that if I could just adjust my desires, I would be happier. If I learned to enjoy things like sitting on a stuffy train and marvel at the fact that I'm flying through a tunnel, that would be the path to success. Nowadays, 'success' has left the financial realm, mostly. I just want to get by and do the things that are precious to me. Life's too short, we deserve more than to throw everything away for work.
neolefty 12y ago
You have achieved wisdom! Everything in this "contingent world" is sandcastles. What will endure?
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  Lots of things endure, actually: the world, buildings, relationships, families, books, many larger achievements, governments... Almost nothing is outright eternal, but on the other hand, you generally wouldn't want it to be -- many things endure so long beyond our current lifespans they might as well be eternal, anyway.

by dxbydt 12y ago

stegosaurus 12y ago

On the incentives point, it seems to me that 'we' as a society focus far too much on money and expect it to paper over the gaps that employment inevitably causes. Finish after your children leave school? Money -> childcare. Can't get time off to cook for yourself more? Money -> restaurant meals. Small stuff. Office located in a stupid place like downtown, forcing _everyone_ into a silly commute. Lack of parking spaces.

eru 12y ago
Can't you move downtown?
- tonyedgecombe 12y ago
  Money -> housing
  - eru 12y ago
    Sorry, what does that mean?
    - tonyedgecombe 12y ago
      It means that your solution is exactly like the problems the parent was enumerating, throw money at it.
      - eru 12y ago
        Oh, sure. That's what money is for.
        stegosaurus 12y ago
        The point I was trying to make is that money is not a cure-all. Yes, with a high enough salary, you may be able to move downtown. But is that actually a replacement for a small-ish home with a yard, a drive, potentially a garage, etc? Of course not. I don't think it's necessary for there to be a choice between 'live downtown' and 'live far out but have a horrible commute'. As far as I can tell, lots of 'business-to-business' style companies don't need to locate their office right in the centre of town. Neither does a dev shop that doesn't have retail clients that walk in on foot. But they do, a lot. Why? Am I missing something blindingly obvious? Zoning laws? Owner can afford a mansion around the corner so doesn't care? It's a mystery to me; it really is.
- stegosaurus 12y ago
  In many places, not really. If you can even afford it, it'd mean living in an apartment or sharing a place. And probably renting - the UK rental market is a nightmare in my experience. Fine if you're doing it out of choice or prefer it, but when it's basically a condition of employment, it's too much of an encroachment upon home life to me. I love having a garden. I like having the space to tinker with a vehicle. I like my home to be in a reasonably quiet area not buzzing with nightlife, and so forth. Like I mentioned in the other post - many probably see it as an entitlement issue, but I think that's fundamentally flawed. I don't think it's wrong to believe that you should be able to control the time you spend outside work. For a while I managed to get by in life by exercising what I can only really describe as thought control. I figured that if I could just adjust my desires, I would be happier. If I learned to enjoy things like sitting on a stuffy train and marvel at the fact that I'm flying through a tunnel, that would be the path to success. Nowadays, 'success' has left the financial realm, mostly. I just want to get by and do the things that are precious to me. Life's too short, we deserve more than to throw everything away for work.

neolefty 12y ago

You have achieved wisdom! Everything in this "contingent world" is sandcastles. What will endure?

eli_gottlieb 12y ago
Lots of things endure, actually: the world, buildings, relationships, families, books, many larger achievements, governments... Almost nothing is outright eternal, but on the other hand, you generally wouldn't want it to be -- many things endure so long beyond our current lifespans they might as well be eternal, anyway.