6 ms·

Not sure what you're saying reflects reality. When Orbital Science's rocket recently exploded, Elon's words were nothing but polite: https://twitter.com/elonmu

by SEJeff 12y ago

Not sure what you're saying reflects reality. When Orbital Science's rocket recently exploded, Elon's words were nothing but polite: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/527247155954610176 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/527247155954610176 And his comment on their rocket being the butt of a joke, using engines literally made in the 1960s and stored in Siberia were true. It is upsetting, but still not as surprising that they suffered catastrophic failure having such an adversion to new tech.

gamegoblin 12y ago
One example of his being polite doesn't mean he doesn't also make fun of competition publicly. Look at the interview where the interviewer asks him about a competitor's electric car (BMW I think) and he just laughs for a not-insignificant amount of time followed by something like "have you seen the thing?"
- Redoubts 12y ago
  Have you seen it, though? It's an appropriate response for most.
- SEJeff 12y ago
  His theatrics aside, he wants to make electric cars viable and take us to mars. Even if he ultimately fails, if he makes everyone else rise up to compete with him, we as humanity win.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    Tesla didn't start the electric car resurgence nor is it likely to take us to Mars. The way I see it Elon is rising up to those around him not the other way around.
    - dredmorbius 12y ago
      Elon is rising up to those around him Sometimes -- and I'd argue often -- leadership consists more of both 1) getting out of the way of and 2) enabling those who Want To Get Shit Done. I find the fanboiism somewhat tedious (I don't find the top comment of this thread all that insightful), but I do admire Musk for seeming to hit a number of remarkable goals. That said, I find Tesla and Solar City more impressive/promising than SpaceX (technical challenges and accomplishments notwithstanding) or the Hyperloop (ultimately an idea that's been rightfully junked in the past). Given the history of US industry of doing just the opposite -- stalling and preventing needed innovation -- if I had to pick a single attribute of his that I find most encouraging it's his leadership in that regard.
    - tsotha 12y ago
      He may not ever get to Mars, but he's doing something far more important, which is to drastically reduce the cost of putting things into LEO. If he can get it low enough a whole list of things pencil out that weren't economically feasible in the past, like space-based solar power generation. Without SpaceX it's likely the business would have muddled along without putting any effort into reducing costs for decades.
      - avmich 12y ago
        Yes. The biggest achievement of SpaceX so far was economical and organizational. Musk cleverly employs latest - which are considered common sense in other industries - approaches to the industry known for its conservatism. That gives them - eventually - proverbial kick in the sensitive parts, making them care more.
- JanezStupar 12y ago
  Its not his fault that everybody else makes electric cars that suck in comparison. There will be a time of reckoning for Elon, but this is not it.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    That's just your opinion. By and large the BMW i3/i8 has received wide praise amongst motoring reviewers and has seen strong sales.
    - JanezStupar 12y ago
      BMW puts food on their plates. The sales of BMW's EV's are strong because of the brand, not because they are excellent electric cars. Don't get me wrong, it is awesome that more players are entering the market. But for a little while longer, Elon can keep sniggering in his corner.
- schiffern 12y ago
  You're conflating two different events. The "have you seen their car?" comment was from an interview with Bloomberg regarding BYD, not BMW. He laughed when asked about BMW during the Q2 2013 conference call, but it was a chuckle followed by serious comments. It was only when the questioner began nervously laughing that he laughed for a significant time. Compilation video containing both events (unfortunately with music, but I don't care enough to track down the individual sources): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gt6CAswSOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gt6CAswSOY So, the big criticism here is that… he's too forthright about competitor's products? I'm actually quite ok with that.
- skywhopper 12y ago
  To be fair, the BMW electric car is the ugliest car BMW has ever made. It looks like they accidentally welded two different models together in the middle. They deserve to be made fun of for that disaster.
avmich 12y ago
> And his comment on their rocket being the butt of a joke, using engines literally made in the 1960s and stored in Siberia were true. That was quite misleading on Elon's side. Engines were manufactured in 1970's (I believe in 1973-1974) after quite an extensive RND program - actualy, remake of similar engines, NK-15, which weren't nearly as good. NK-33 engines were tested as perhaps no others of theirs caliber - with tests like throwing metal chips (nuts?) into pumps, or running uninterrupted for ~4 hours (!) . Technical capabilities are also quite formidable - ok, Merlin-D has better thrust-to-weight, but worse Isp, and that's with the hindsight of ~40 years. Throttleable... relatively modest pressure by today's standards... And they were stored in Volga region, which is firmly Europe. So, Musk's comment - intentionally or not - painted OSC's decision in less-than-objective color. Well, Elon is known for exagerrating... and sometimes quite grossly. We'll know the scale.
- reneherse 12y ago
  The odyssey of the reclaimed NK-33's is intriguing as hell, but I can only imagine that everyone involved in their resurrection knew the odds of failure would be higher than with modern engines. Soviet metallurgy in the 1970's likely didn't have the consistency and precision we have today. So while the NK-33 was (is) a remarkably advanced design, it was likely pushing the limits of the materials of its time and place–even before sitting in storage in uncontrolled conditions for decades.
  - avmich 12y ago
    Odds of failure would perhaps be higher, given all the rest equal. Which is not - Soviet rocket engine school was at its golden age at the time, there were a lot of people both academically educated and who participated in large scale experiments with engines. Granted, today's capabilities allow us to surpass the level of sophistication achieved during the space race. However, we still need to try hard enough - and we know the support from governments is not as great. Limits of materials were pushed indeed. Some safety margins for materials were claimed as under 1.0 - i.e., 0.97 - that is, materials were pushed further than their limits. The idea was that since the engine is used once, we can use it in the manner that greatly reduces the life of the engine - and nobody would care, since a stage will be done with in a few short minutes. A lot of things were done quite unconventionally - remember SR-71, for example, or oxygen-rich pre-burners which were considered rather impossible. NK-33 remains unsurpassed even today by many criteria. Now it includes even the ability to work after 40 years of shelf line - which probably left the trace on engines reliability.
tsotha 12y ago
Didn't he make that comment about the engines before the launch failure?

by SEJeff 12y ago

gamegoblin 12y ago

One example of his being polite doesn't mean he doesn't also make fun of competition publicly. Look at the interview where the interviewer asks him about a competitor's electric car (BMW I think) and he just laughs for a not-insignificant amount of time followed by something like "have you seen the thing?"

Redoubts 12y ago
Have you seen it, though? It's an appropriate response for most.
SEJeff 12y ago
His theatrics aside, he wants to make electric cars viable and take us to mars. Even if he ultimately fails, if he makes everyone else rise up to compete with him, we as humanity win.
- threeseed 12y ago
  Tesla didn't start the electric car resurgence nor is it likely to take us to Mars. The way I see it Elon is rising up to those around him not the other way around.
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    Elon is rising up to those around him Sometimes -- and I'd argue often -- leadership consists more of both 1) getting out of the way of and 2) enabling those who Want To Get Shit Done. I find the fanboiism somewhat tedious (I don't find the top comment of this thread all that insightful), but I do admire Musk for seeming to hit a number of remarkable goals. That said, I find Tesla and Solar City more impressive/promising than SpaceX (technical challenges and accomplishments notwithstanding) or the Hyperloop (ultimately an idea that's been rightfully junked in the past). Given the history of US industry of doing just the opposite -- stalling and preventing needed innovation -- if I had to pick a single attribute of his that I find most encouraging it's his leadership in that regard.
  - tsotha 12y ago
    He may not ever get to Mars, but he's doing something far more important, which is to drastically reduce the cost of putting things into LEO. If he can get it low enough a whole list of things pencil out that weren't economically feasible in the past, like space-based solar power generation. Without SpaceX it's likely the business would have muddled along without putting any effort into reducing costs for decades.
    - avmich 12y ago
      Yes. The biggest achievement of SpaceX so far was economical and organizational. Musk cleverly employs latest - which are considered common sense in other industries - approaches to the industry known for its conservatism. That gives them - eventually - proverbial kick in the sensitive parts, making them care more.
JanezStupar 12y ago
Its not his fault that everybody else makes electric cars that suck in comparison. There will be a time of reckoning for Elon, but this is not it.
- threeseed 12y ago
  That's just your opinion. By and large the BMW i3/i8 has received wide praise amongst motoring reviewers and has seen strong sales.
  - JanezStupar 12y ago
    BMW puts food on their plates. The sales of BMW's EV's are strong because of the brand, not because they are excellent electric cars. Don't get me wrong, it is awesome that more players are entering the market. But for a little while longer, Elon can keep sniggering in his corner.
schiffern 12y ago
You're conflating two different events. The "have you seen their car?" comment was from an interview with Bloomberg regarding BYD, not BMW. He laughed when asked about BMW during the Q2 2013 conference call, but it was a chuckle followed by serious comments. It was only when the questioner began nervously laughing that he laughed for a significant time. Compilation video containing both events (unfortunately with music, but I don't care enough to track down the individual sources): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gt6CAswSOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gt6CAswSOY So, the big criticism here is that… he's too forthright about competitor's products? I'm actually quite ok with that.
skywhopper 12y ago
To be fair, the BMW electric car is the ugliest car BMW has ever made. It looks like they accidentally welded two different models together in the middle. They deserve to be made fun of for that disaster.

avmich 12y ago

> And his comment on their rocket being the butt of a joke, using engines literally made in the 1960s and stored in Siberia were true. That was quite misleading on Elon's side. Engines were manufactured in 1970's (I believe in 1973-1974) after quite an extensive RND program - actualy, remake of similar engines, NK-15, which weren't nearly as good. NK-33 engines were tested as perhaps no others of theirs caliber - with tests like throwing metal chips (nuts?) into pumps, or running uninterrupted for ~4 hours (!) . Technical capabilities are also quite formidable - ok, Merlin-D has better thrust-to-weight, but worse Isp, and that's with the hindsight of ~40 years. Throttleable... relatively modest pressure by today's standards... And they were stored in Volga region, which is firmly Europe. So, Musk's comment - intentionally or not - painted OSC's decision in less-than-objective color. Well, Elon is known for exagerrating... and sometimes quite grossly. We'll know the scale.

reneherse 12y ago
The odyssey of the reclaimed NK-33's is intriguing as hell, but I can only imagine that everyone involved in their resurrection knew the odds of failure would be higher than with modern engines. Soviet metallurgy in the 1970's likely didn't have the consistency and precision we have today. So while the NK-33 was (is) a remarkably advanced design, it was likely pushing the limits of the materials of its time and place–even before sitting in storage in uncontrolled conditions for decades.
- avmich 12y ago
  Odds of failure would perhaps be higher, given all the rest equal. Which is not - Soviet rocket engine school was at its golden age at the time, there were a lot of people both academically educated and who participated in large scale experiments with engines. Granted, today's capabilities allow us to surpass the level of sophistication achieved during the space race. However, we still need to try hard enough - and we know the support from governments is not as great. Limits of materials were pushed indeed. Some safety margins for materials were claimed as under 1.0 - i.e., 0.97 - that is, materials were pushed further than their limits. The idea was that since the engine is used once, we can use it in the manner that greatly reduces the life of the engine - and nobody would care, since a stage will be done with in a few short minutes. A lot of things were done quite unconventionally - remember SR-71, for example, or oxygen-rich pre-burners which were considered rather impossible. NK-33 remains unsurpassed even today by many criteria. Now it includes even the ability to work after 40 years of shelf line - which probably left the trace on engines reliability.

tsotha 12y ago

Didn't he make that comment about the engines before the launch failure?