7 ms·

Remember broken Nexus telephony? This is how Google treats it's customers

204 points by evpuneq 12y ago

tmaly 12y ago
I am so glad that I hold off on the bleeding edge android. I am sticking with 4.4 till there is more adoption
- baggachipz 12y ago
  It's funny, I actually upgraded to 5.0.1 stock from Cyanogen 11 (4.4.4) because the phone portion stopped working in 4.4.4. Haven't had any issues with calls since then. Now I'm worried that it'll suddenly go south again :( Nexus 4 is clearly the red-headed stepchild in the Nexus family now. If there was a newer Nexus that wasn't the size of an iPad, I'd upgrade; but there isn't. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't like holding War and Peace against my ear to talk on a phone.
  - Touche 12y ago
    The newer versions aren't much better. The Nexus 9 is the worst Nexus device I've ever owned. First it had a rotation-not-working issue that they never acknowledged, then there is a major battery charge problem (mine takes 7 hours+ to charge. That's a full work day) that they also do not acknowledge
  - morganvachon 12y ago
    > If there was a newer Nexus that wasn't the size of an iPad, I'd upgrade; but there isn't. The Nexus 5 isn't that much bigger than the 4, and certainly isn't as big as the Nexus 6. It's also not nearly as expensive as the 6. Size comparison of the 5 and 4 (from the left, respectively): http://newlaunches.com/archives/google-nexus-5-competition-comparison.php http://newlaunches.com/archives/google-nexus-5-competition-c...
    - baggachipz 12y ago
      Eh, I suppose you're right. But this entire thread has me pretty concerned, as the Nexus 5 is already "old" in Google's eyes.
      - morganvachon 12y ago
        If you must have Android, you should look at the Moto G. It's inexpensive, has a small (by today's standards) 4.5" screen, and is fairly powerful for the price. I'm not a Motorola fan in general, but I think they have a solid phone with this one.
    - classicsnoot 12y ago
      I really like my N5, and i have been enjoying Lollipop as a user experience. I use ADW launcher and keep my device very trim in terms of apps; the only niggling issue currently is that TextSecure does not receive group texts from iTards when WiFi is enabled, but they are aware of the problem so it is a m00t point. It bears consideration that the N5 is not carried by Verison [CDMA].
      - morganvachon 12y ago
        > It bears consideration that the N5 is not carried by Verison [CDMA]. The Nexus 5 does actually have a CDMA radio and works well on Sprint and its MVNOs. The problem is that Verizon won't list it as an approved device in their database, which means it won't provision for them. From what I understand, it's a control issue, not a technical issue; they can't get carrier exclusivity with an unlocked Nexus phone so they don't want it on their network. In short, the problem is Verizon, not the radio in the phone.
        classicsnoot 12y ago
        Thank you for explaining that. I am on Tmobz and their customer service has been exceptional to date (which is why i left Verizon) but i miss the connectivity as i travel in rural areas a fair amount. Seeing as the hardware is there, is it theoretically possible to jigger the channels (technical term) and use an N5 on Verizon?
  - Torgo 12y ago
    >Nexus 4 is clearly the red-headed stepchild in the Nexus family now. I'm on Verizon Galaxy Nexus. If Nexus 4 is the red-headed stepchild, Verizon Galaxy Nexus is the kid chained in the basement nobody talks about :-/
fridek 12y ago
This is your second submission of it after https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8838578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8838578 I agree this may haven't been resolved nicely, but hidden extrapolation from a few employees to the whole company is not cool on your side either. There are people in there, working their butts off to make one of the largest open source projects better.
- arihant 12y ago
  There is also another employee who marked a disfunctional telephony on a phone as "Priority-small." I think we're seeing a pattern here.
  - magicalist 12y ago
    Where does an employee mark it small? Changes to issue state end up as comments and I don't see one. It looks much more like issues in that tracker start as Priority-small and no one upgraded it.
  - fridek 12y ago
    I refer simply to getting angry at the whole company for action of a subset of employees. That's so common today and makes me think I don't ever want to own or work for a large, multi-project company. I do agree it's by no means a small priority ticket and not one that should be closed without a fix. Although there is a solution mentioned in https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=82949#c440 https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=82949#c44... which actually worked for me.
  - canthonytucci 12y ago
    I think they're handling this poorly and that for a company as big and rich as google, "we only have so many people fixing Android 5 bugs." is a pretty weak excuse. That said, I bet google knows better than we do how many active Nexus 4 users are still out there, my suspicions is - not many. Here's my guess - they prioritize bugs not just on severity but also based on number of users impacted, and who those users are (in this case, people who are still using a phone that was discontinued over a year ago, have manually updated their phones and then reported a bug in the AOSP tracker. a demographic I suspect is going to be very hard to satisfy no matter what). I'm guessing they hope that people will take this problem to the carrier they bought it from (if they got it from someone besides google), contact google play store customer support (who have always been helpful in my experience), downgrade, or just move on and buy a more recent phone.
patentAbuse 12y ago
This is a terrible precedent Google is setting, and it is going to cause considerable harm if it gains traction: It's one thing to stop upgrading "older" devices, but quite another to actually break critical, regulated functionality. The Google employee who decided this was a "small" issue apparently doesn't realize that the inoperation of basic voice functionality of cellular devices is the fuel for fat, deserved lawsuits. I have a Nexus 5, have no interest in the Nexus 6, and could easily think "Oh well...upgrade", but as the old saying goes -- first they abandoned the Nexus 4, and I didn't speak up...
- Touche 12y ago
  I think they are starting to regret the Nexus line as they don't make any money off of it and users have high expectations. You can tell, imo, that they are looking to just slowly kill it off.
  - patentAbuse 12y ago
    The Nexus line really saved Android -- it was always the excuse (the best word I can think of) when other devices had update, performance, or security issues. "Well it isn't Android, it's Samsung/HTC/Motorola/Sony/etc, because my Nexus...". It was a critical line. Google may have killed the Nexus line by making the 9 and 6 so uncompelling, but I doubt it was intentional. They're just a company that has a chronic difficulty prioritizing customer service. Further I don't really think it's "high expectations" to demand that voice functionality works (again, this stuff gets you in serious trouble with regulators. If this were raised to the FTC and/or CRTC, you can bet Google would find a fix extremely quickly).
- Spooky23 12y ago
  This isn't new. We basically banished android a few years ago when an active sync bug on a few thousand devices killed our on-prem exchange. The workaround was literally to land something like 8-12 servers. Filed a bug with Google, they closed it. The handset vendor fixed it, but the carrier refused to release it. So we made the carrier take them back and give us iPhones. (One of those rare times when it's fun to work for a massive bureaucracy!) Never looked back.
thomaslutz 12y ago
I will never buy a Nexus tablet or phone again. Still no Lollipop for the razorg.
- adlpz 12y ago
  Google is well know for their abysmal costumer support, but this is just the last straw; a telephone that cannot make calls, not even emergency 911/112. And such issue is marked as "Priority-small" and dismissed. It was good while it lasted, but it's clear now that Google not only cannot be depended on for their software (see Google Reader), but also cannot be relied on for our hardware needs. At least they have the search thing...
  - josteink 12y ago
    > but it's clear now that Google not only cannot be depended on for their software (see Google Reader) How about all versions of Android 4.3 and down? 60% of the Android user-base is now without updates for critical security errors. Their support is ridiculous.
    - whyaduck 12y ago
      I have a Nexus 4 on Lollipop and I was experiencing this issue too, and saw the response. Last night I bought an iPhone.
      - SemiNormal 12y ago
        Good luck with your iOS 8 bluetooth connectivity issues. (other than that, everything seems to work fine)
        thomaslutz 12y ago
        I have no issues at all (but had issues with the 3GS a few years ago). Which issues do you have?
      - 12y ago
pibefision 12y ago
I've the same model (Nexus 4) and can confirm this issue. Can't believe Google's response to this.
- Elhana 12y ago
  Same model and I don't have this issue. This might be a driver or hardware issue. Phone is manufactured by LG, so it is possible that Google can't really fix it. One comment claims same problem happened in 4.2.2, 4.4.4 and 5.0 too, so it might be some changes in 5.0 just make it happen much more often (NuPlayer?)
- jbuzbee 12y ago
  My daughter and both have the Nexus 4 and I don't recall ever having this problem. Suppose its a carrier issue? We're on TMobile.
  - ddlatham 12y ago
    My wife and I both have the Nexus 4 and are using TMobile. Her phone has this problem. Mine does not.
zumtar 12y ago
If you have time (and the inclination) then you could report this to the technical support department of the mobile telco you are using. You won't get instant gratification that you would by using a bugtracker but technical reports back to the vendor (in this case Google) do eventually get sent upstream. If enough people complain via Google's channels then the bug will be brought up at higher levels eventually. The other option is to tweet at senior Android guys and see if you get a response. Good luck.
- arihant 12y ago
  You know, that is a valid option. When iPhone 4's telephone broke because of the "grip of death" antenna issue, Steve Jobs himself came out, apologized, offered a free bumper case to mitigate the issue. Compare that to this. And the telco of Nexus is Google! Google just pointed to contact Google.
  - zumtar 12y ago
    > And the telco of Nexus is Google! It isn't, Google doesn't run their own mobile network or mobile virtual network (yet). Contacting the technical support team of the company that provides you the SIM card that is inserted into the Nexus device will have an effect. I know it seems backwards because the issue has actually been introduced with Google's OTA update but those technical support calls get escalated and eventually they'll end up back at Google (via the team that deals with carrier interaction).
    - arihant 12y ago
      It won't work that way. Nexus 4 was not sold through a carrier, Google sold it unlocked through their website.
      - zumtar 12y ago
        Yes it will. I am fully aware that the handsets are bought contract-free from Google (I am a long time Nexus user and purchaser), I am not suggesting that the carrier will replace or repair the handset. The handset that attaches to a GSM network has to conform to many standards set out by the GSMA (GSM association) as well as many other local certification bodies and associations (one example is the handset must have the ability to call emergency services). If complaints are made to the technical department of the carrier being used, the calls will eventually be escalated to a vendor/manufacturer of Google's size. I've worked for various different cellular providers and I have personally seen such tickets.
piquadrat 12y ago
More than the fact that tickets like this get closed, I find the way that they are closed infuriating. You would think that dozens of comments, many of them with lots of details, would merit a more extensive answer than a single > contact customer support. How about "Thanks for all your comments. Unfortunately, this is the wrong forum to report problems like this. Please contact the Nexus customer support and let them know about the issues you are having."
- pen2l 12y ago
  The other reason closing tickets is not a good answer: if there's gonna be an answer or a solution, someone who had the problem in the past or just solved it now is going to post it there. Then people googling the problem and arriving at the ticket will not be met just with people who are complaining, but also possibly a working solution.
- aroch 12y ago
  Google is "Nexus customer support", they just don't particularly care about doing that job. Google drops support for their own developer phones faster than Samsung and HTC do. E: To address the initial downvoters: why don't you explain yourselves. How is Google not responsible for supporting nexus devices? They're sold directly by Google, they're produced for Google, and they're heavily marketed by Google. Google provides the software and hardware support directly after purchase and handles RMAs directly. Google depreciates Nexus device support in <18months. Nexus One, Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus were all dropped about a year after release, significant performance problems were never addressed. N7(2012) was dropped early last year from official maintenance and the absolute shit NAND quality was never addressed. Google has a history of not caring about proper support for their Nexus devices. HTC has released lollipop upgrades for devices that are >2 years old. Samsung has also released lollipop upgrades for devices >2 years old.
  - morganvachon 12y ago
    Well...the phone itself is over two years old now, which means it's about 18 months out of support if you're equating it with certain other vendors' devices; Nexus phones actually fare better than some other devices. That said, the fact that Google decided to push 5.0 to it is in itself amazing to me, Nexus status or not. I have a Nexus 4 that runs 5.0, and when I've switched to it from my Windows phone I've noticed that I randomly have no call audio in the cellular dialer as well as the Hangouts dialer. I guessed it was something to do with the 5.0 release but I figured as little as I use the phone, it was nothing to worry about. But the more I think about it, the more I'm tempted to revert to 4.4 since this is my only backup phone, and I'd rather have it ready to go at the expense of playing with 5.0.
pakled_engineer 12y ago
I remember reading the google+ page of JBQ a while back where he openly lamented having to do customer support bullshit all day because Google is terribly organized without enough Android staff. Also the stock lollipop Nexus4 image doesn't fix this, you still have to reboot every so often to get voice back. It will only happen at the most crucial times too given Murphy's law, like phoning a cab in the pouring rain with only 5% battery left, and when I called a girl I met back and ended up calling 4 times looking like a complete inept fool or harassing weirdo when the voice first disappeared.
fishnchips 12y ago
Funny, I'd imagine a number of Googlers still have Nexus 4 corp phones. Just curious how that sort of thing is handled internally. You get a new phone issued?
Kenji 12y ago
I don't want to be a nitpick, but it's "its customers". Possessive its (for some reason, the words google, possessive and customers together like that make me feel uncomfortable). Not "Google treat it is customers".
- classicsnoot 12y ago
  I don't mean to nitpick, but you used the term 'nitpick' incorrectly.
  - Kenji 12y ago
    How embarrassing. But thanks, I learned something.
sean_the_geek 12y ago
I have Nexus 4 and can confirm the issue. Never had it in the previous version. So much for the Lollipop update
poushkarr 12y ago
Had to downgrade because of the issue. Can't believe how Google behaves in this situation. My next phone is definitely not a Nexus.
tempVariable 12y ago
I'm on CM11 with 4.4.4 and I need to reboot daily to get around this issue. CM just posted an upgrade to CM12 nightly for Nexus 4 and I'm thinking of biting the bullet and taking on that upgrade
furyg3 12y ago
Of course there are multiple rationales for choosing a platform, but support is certainly one of them. A while ago someone made a nice graph of how good Apple/Google are at maintaining OS support for their devices, it's pretty informative (although I'd like to see a new one). http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-support/ http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-support/ In this case the Nexus 4 is still officially supported by 5.0... but not being able to call on a phone seems like unsupported to me.
- EarthLaunch 12y ago
  That's a great visualization, thanks. Here's an HN discussion of that chart from a year ago (it's a circus of everyone trying to make excuses): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6853222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6853222
  - epmatsw 12y ago
    Love the highly upvoted comments about how Apple can never release a watch or a 6 inch iPhone due to the inherent limitations of iOS.
- dice 12y ago
  My wife has an N4 running 5.0.1 with no issues re calling, so if there is an issue for these users it's an isolated one and not a systemic problem with all N4s. Most of the Android phones on the page you linked are not Google phones. Whether or not they get updated is up to the manufacturers and carriers, not Google. You'll note that the Nexus phones have more update support in general. Whether providing major updates to a phone is a good thing is debatable. My wife hated getting the 5.0 update. She saw it as a major inconvience that changed how her phone worked for no good reason. She would prefer to have the phone work the same way for the entire time she owns it. PS: 'Sup, fury?
  - GVIrish 12y ago
    > My wife has an N4 running 5.0.1 with no issues re calling, so if there is an issue for these users it's an isolated one and not a systemic problem with all N4s. That's a bit of a leap to declare that the issue is an isolated one because your wife is not having the problem. As it turns out, my wife had that exact problem with her Nexus 4 on 5.0.1. How widespread is the problem? Who knows. From my perspective it seems like the 5.0 release has been a bit more problematic than previous major Android upgrades.
gabemart 12y ago
In the link #440 reports that disabling "NuPlayer" fixed the issue. This setting is in Settings > Developer options under "Media". I've also found that NuPlayer plays unpredictable havoc with an audio playing app I wrote that is currently on Google Play. Some users on Lollipop report audio glitches, silence or weird bluetooth issues. Disabling NuPlayer fixes these issues. I wish there was a way for me, as a developer, to force use of the old AwesomePlayer system for my app in particular, but have no idea if this is possible technically. I certainly haven't found a way to do it. But what I find surprising is that NuPlayer is labelled "experimental" in Developer options but is enabled by default. Isn't that a bit weird?
- e40 12y ago
  Is NuPlayer a 5.0 only option? (My son's Nexus 5 isn't in front of me.) Using 4.4.4 here, with no plans to upgrade.
  - gabemart 12y ago
    Yes, as far as I'm aware the option to default to NuPlayer system-wide is only present (and default) in 5.x
    - Kudos 12y ago
      It's not on by default and it's labeled "Experimental" on my Nexus 5 running stock 5.0.1.
      - gabemart 12y ago
        That's interesting. I didn't realize that only some 5.x devices came with it enabled by default. I can only speculate as to why some devices come with it turned on and some don't, but I've definitely supported some Nexus 5 users on 5.x who had it turned on by default - they didn't even have developer options enabled prior to contacting me.
- fluidcruft 12y ago
  Bizarrely, some apps seem to need NuPlayer as a workarounds (particularly for the new imgur gifv in Reddit if Fun, black screen problems in Words With Friends, etc). I found NuPlayer was disabled on my Nexus 4 after upgrade from KitKat and I had to turn it on. Not sure about what it defaults to after a factory wipe.
cwyers 12y ago
I wish Windows Phone was just like... 15% better in terms of app support. Existence as an Android user just seems more and more self-hating as time goes on, and it's clear that Google, the OEMs and the carriers are just not about to cooperate to make the user experience any better. (I know, I know, there's the iPhone, but I have a pathological hatred of iTunes for Windows, so that's not really an option.)
- cordite 12y ago
  There is also the problem where companies like Google refuse to acknowledge platforms apart from theirs. The iOS apps are usually faulty, and Google DMCAs any third party apps that talk to their services on the windows platform.
  - fidotron 12y ago
    This is going to bite them. Android has deteriorated so much I'm working out how to move to Windows phone which really means leaving the Google ecosystem completely. And my career has been Android based for many years now.
    - cwyers 12y ago
      I have the 2012 Motorola X, and a Nokia Lumia 635 I picked up for $50 at Radio Shack a few weeks ago. I'm betting that the Lumia sees the Windows 10 preview before the Motorola X sees Lollipop. It's so bizarre.
  - cwyers 12y ago
    I'm not sure there IS anyone like Google. Apple is all walled garden, but they don't offer all that many services that make sense outside of their platform anyway -- they don't offer anything like Maps or YouTube. (Well, I guess iTunes, but... Apple gonna Apple.) Amazon is outright weird about supporting non-Fire Android, but they've finally got Amazon Video available on other Android platforms, and stuff like Kindle readers are available for any platform imaginable. Amazon Video is also on the Xbox, Playstation, Wii and Wii U, Roku and all kinds of smart TV/I guess smart BluRay devices. With the weird exception of Xbox Video, Microsoft is pretty much falling all over themselves to be on every platform -- Xbox Music, Xbox Smartglass, Office, Outlook.com, OneNote... they're all on iOS and Android. Google has a Google PLay app for Roku, at least. They offer some stuff on iOS, but not as much as they do on their own platform. But they're not on Xbox. They're not on Playstation. I can at least reason out why they don't want to be on Windows Phone or such, but... Google isn't competing with the Xbox and Playstation, and they're kidding themselves if they think they are. Why not a Playstation app for movies?
bla2 12y ago
The difference between android and iOS and windows phone is that android has an open bug tracker, making issues like this a lot more visible. Maybe this issue doesn't affect many people, or google determined that it only happens for phones on a certain carrier and can't disclose that publicly. Sure, the bug could have been closed with a friendlier message, but an open bug tracker seems like a good thing to me
- IE6 12y ago
  Agreed. JIRA is managed this way as well and it does lead to a lot of anger around 12 year old issues that really should be implemented. However, at least we can see what is going on.
- Spooky23 12y ago
  That difference applies to individuals and SMBs. With both Apple and Microsoft, if you have an account team you have a channel to get things escalated, and if you are a strategic customer, you'll get rapid attention. Google doesn't really offer that, or if they do, the threshold to get that attention is very high.
rasz_pl 12y ago
What other response did you expect from Google employee? Google doesnt hire low level customer support people, google hires top of the line, few hours in front of white board interview coders, people with multiple phd's and industry veterans. I bet they dont even have dedicated support staff, just 200K a year programmers assigned to bugtracker having to divide their time between actual work and asking 'have you tried turning it off and on again'. Its BENEATH those people to interact with rabble. and here we have a result of this broken system.
- UhUhUhUh 12y ago
  And unlike hard- and software, such a broken system can last a very long time. There's an old French joke about "polytehcnician" (i.e graduate from Polytechnique, a top-level post graduate institution). What's the difference between a train and a polytechinician? When the train gets off the tracks it stops.
debacle 12y ago
I feel like Android 5 is a step back, UI-wise. One of those "change for the sake of change" things. I don't see how a triangle, square, and circle are more user friendly than a back button, a home button, and a tab button. Chrome is also crashing constantly on 5.03 and the new keyboard is very very bright at night. Not a telephony issue, but I feel like 5.03 was a step back and I've actually contemplated downgrading back to 4.* Is that an option for phone users, or does the carrier push the updates? Edit: It seems like every time I make a comment that might be slightly anti-Google these days, it receives downvotes. That's concerning.
- skynetv2 12y ago
  exactly. not to mention, the UI is full of elements that overlay other elements ... like the loading circle on top of emails, compose button on top of email (in gmail app), lots of blank space ... its just horrible (for me).
- lukasm 12y ago
  The chrome is very annoying. Constant crash and New Tab takes a few seconds. But the most annoying is tabs are treated like apps. When I'm on tube and read Effective Go I need to scroll through all apps and tabs to go back to it.
  - misaelm 12y ago
    Tabs being treated like apps is definitely annoying. However, you can fix that by going to the chrome settings and turning off the "Merge tabs and apps" switch. Why "on" is the default setting is beyond me.
  - malka 12y ago
    "settings > merge tab and application" IIRC
- classicsnoot 12y ago
  I like Lollipop, and i don't like what you are saying, and i completely share your concern. Many of the comments ITT that make a negative assessment of Google are greyed out. The feel is bad, but i maintain my loyalty to Google, as there is no better option. I also get the feeling that they are building a Mothership and i would like to be on that craft when it leaves Terra.
sapientiae 12y ago
Heh. I've just been hunting for clues to fix my "Nexus 6 randomly reboots" problem. Also quite common problem, and also radio silence from Google. Missed several phone calls due to phone having secretly rebooted. Nice synchronicity.
baggachipz 12y ago
I'm going to cross the streams a bit here and bring up a major concern going forward. Right now, "Project Ara" is Google's project to create a modular phone that allows hot-swappable components in a totally customizable pocket device. That is, you could have 3 cameras and no wifi in your device if that's how you choose to put it together. How in the hell do we expect the Android OS to actually make this anything but a bug-laden shit show? They're clearly having a hard enough time making Android work on their own narrow line of devices. The very idea of using this same OS for a completely open-ended device seems laughable, at best.
- xasos 12y ago
  They would definitely have to tweak and re-arrange android to work in a more modular system, where software can be built by the manufacturer/on the fly with pre-built components you can put in the software (depending on what module you have in the phone)
- classicsnoot 12y ago
  I was getting excited about the Spiral but this thread has decreased the wind pressure in my sails considerably. Theoretically speaking, is any big mobile device company capable of supporting a modular device that can compete with the top of the line devices?
tomphoolery 12y ago
Google doesn't even have "customer support"!
alsutton010203 12y ago
That bug tracker is for AOSP code issues, not issues related to any specific device, so contacting customer support is the best route for the problem no matter who sold you the device.
mutex023 12y ago
I have the same problem on 4.4.4, but in moto G. The solution that worked was to wipe the cache partition and reboot.
mutex023 12y ago
I had the same problem on android 4.4.4, but on moto G. The solution given on the Motorola customer support site was to wipe the cache partition. It worked.

204 points by evpuneq 12y ago

tmaly 12y ago

I am so glad that I hold off on the bleeding edge android. I am sticking with 4.4 till there is more adoption

baggachipz 12y ago
It's funny, I actually upgraded to 5.0.1 stock from Cyanogen 11 (4.4.4) because the phone portion stopped working in 4.4.4. Haven't had any issues with calls since then. Now I'm worried that it'll suddenly go south again :( Nexus 4 is clearly the red-headed stepchild in the Nexus family now. If there was a newer Nexus that wasn't the size of an iPad, I'd upgrade; but there isn't. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't like holding War and Peace against my ear to talk on a phone.
- Touche 12y ago
  The newer versions aren't much better. The Nexus 9 is the worst Nexus device I've ever owned. First it had a rotation-not-working issue that they never acknowledged, then there is a major battery charge problem (mine takes 7 hours+ to charge. That's a full work day) that they also do not acknowledge
- morganvachon 12y ago
  > If there was a newer Nexus that wasn't the size of an iPad, I'd upgrade; but there isn't. The Nexus 5 isn't that much bigger than the 4, and certainly isn't as big as the Nexus 6. It's also not nearly as expensive as the 6. Size comparison of the 5 and 4 (from the left, respectively): http://newlaunches.com/archives/google-nexus-5-competition-comparison.php http://newlaunches.com/archives/google-nexus-5-competition-c...
  - baggachipz 12y ago
    Eh, I suppose you're right. But this entire thread has me pretty concerned, as the Nexus 5 is already "old" in Google's eyes.
    - morganvachon 12y ago
      If you must have Android, you should look at the Moto G. It's inexpensive, has a small (by today's standards) 4.5" screen, and is fairly powerful for the price. I'm not a Motorola fan in general, but I think they have a solid phone with this one.
  - classicsnoot 12y ago
    I really like my N5, and i have been enjoying Lollipop as a user experience. I use ADW launcher and keep my device very trim in terms of apps; the only niggling issue currently is that TextSecure does not receive group texts from iTards when WiFi is enabled, but they are aware of the problem so it is a m00t point. It bears consideration that the N5 is not carried by Verison [CDMA].
    - morganvachon 12y ago
      > It bears consideration that the N5 is not carried by Verison [CDMA]. The Nexus 5 does actually have a CDMA radio and works well on Sprint and its MVNOs. The problem is that Verizon won't list it as an approved device in their database, which means it won't provision for them. From what I understand, it's a control issue, not a technical issue; they can't get carrier exclusivity with an unlocked Nexus phone so they don't want it on their network. In short, the problem is Verizon, not the radio in the phone.
      - classicsnoot 12y ago
        Thank you for explaining that. I am on Tmobz and their customer service has been exceptional to date (which is why i left Verizon) but i miss the connectivity as i travel in rural areas a fair amount. Seeing as the hardware is there, is it theoretically possible to jigger the channels (technical term) and use an N5 on Verizon?
- Torgo 12y ago
  >Nexus 4 is clearly the red-headed stepchild in the Nexus family now. I'm on Verizon Galaxy Nexus. If Nexus 4 is the red-headed stepchild, Verizon Galaxy Nexus is the kid chained in the basement nobody talks about :-/

fridek 12y ago

This is your second submission of it after https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8838578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8838578 I agree this may haven't been resolved nicely, but hidden extrapolation from a few employees to the whole company is not cool on your side either. There are people in there, working their butts off to make one of the largest open source projects better.

arihant 12y ago
There is also another employee who marked a disfunctional telephony on a phone as "Priority-small." I think we're seeing a pattern here.
- magicalist 12y ago
  Where does an employee mark it small? Changes to issue state end up as comments and I don't see one. It looks much more like issues in that tracker start as Priority-small and no one upgraded it.
- fridek 12y ago
  I refer simply to getting angry at the whole company for action of a subset of employees. That's so common today and makes me think I don't ever want to own or work for a large, multi-project company. I do agree it's by no means a small priority ticket and not one that should be closed without a fix. Although there is a solution mentioned in https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=82949#c440 https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=82949#c44... which actually worked for me.
- canthonytucci 12y ago
  I think they're handling this poorly and that for a company as big and rich as google, "we only have so many people fixing Android 5 bugs." is a pretty weak excuse. That said, I bet google knows better than we do how many active Nexus 4 users are still out there, my suspicions is - not many. Here's my guess - they prioritize bugs not just on severity but also based on number of users impacted, and who those users are (in this case, people who are still using a phone that was discontinued over a year ago, have manually updated their phones and then reported a bug in the AOSP tracker. a demographic I suspect is going to be very hard to satisfy no matter what). I'm guessing they hope that people will take this problem to the carrier they bought it from (if they got it from someone besides google), contact google play store customer support (who have always been helpful in my experience), downgrade, or just move on and buy a more recent phone.

patentAbuse 12y ago

This is a terrible precedent Google is setting, and it is going to cause considerable harm if it gains traction: It's one thing to stop upgrading "older" devices, but quite another to actually break critical, regulated functionality. The Google employee who decided this was a "small" issue apparently doesn't realize that the inoperation of basic voice functionality of cellular devices is the fuel for fat, deserved lawsuits. I have a Nexus 5, have no interest in the Nexus 6, and could easily think "Oh well...upgrade", but as the old saying goes -- first they abandoned the Nexus 4, and I didn't speak up...

Touche 12y ago
I think they are starting to regret the Nexus line as they don't make any money off of it and users have high expectations. You can tell, imo, that they are looking to just slowly kill it off.
- patentAbuse 12y ago
  The Nexus line really saved Android -- it was always the excuse (the best word I can think of) when other devices had update, performance, or security issues. "Well it isn't Android, it's Samsung/HTC/Motorola/Sony/etc, because my Nexus...". It was a critical line. Google may have killed the Nexus line by making the 9 and 6 so uncompelling, but I doubt it was intentional. They're just a company that has a chronic difficulty prioritizing customer service. Further I don't really think it's "high expectations" to demand that voice functionality works (again, this stuff gets you in serious trouble with regulators. If this were raised to the FTC and/or CRTC, you can bet Google would find a fix extremely quickly).
Spooky23 12y ago
This isn't new. We basically banished android a few years ago when an active sync bug on a few thousand devices killed our on-prem exchange. The workaround was literally to land something like 8-12 servers. Filed a bug with Google, they closed it. The handset vendor fixed it, but the carrier refused to release it. So we made the carrier take them back and give us iPhones. (One of those rare times when it's fun to work for a massive bureaucracy!) Never looked back.

thomaslutz 12y ago

I will never buy a Nexus tablet or phone again. Still no Lollipop for the razorg.

adlpz 12y ago
Google is well know for their abysmal costumer support, but this is just the last straw; a telephone that cannot make calls, not even emergency 911/112. And such issue is marked as "Priority-small" and dismissed. It was good while it lasted, but it's clear now that Google not only cannot be depended on for their software (see Google Reader), but also cannot be relied on for our hardware needs. At least they have the search thing...
- josteink 12y ago
  > but it's clear now that Google not only cannot be depended on for their software (see Google Reader) How about all versions of Android 4.3 and down? 60% of the Android user-base is now without updates for critical security errors. Their support is ridiculous.
  - whyaduck 12y ago
    I have a Nexus 4 on Lollipop and I was experiencing this issue too, and saw the response. Last night I bought an iPhone.
    - SemiNormal 12y ago
      Good luck with your iOS 8 bluetooth connectivity issues. (other than that, everything seems to work fine)
      - thomaslutz 12y ago
        I have no issues at all (but had issues with the 3GS a few years ago). Which issues do you have?
    - 12y ago

pibefision 12y ago

I've the same model (Nexus 4) and can confirm this issue. Can't believe Google's response to this.

Elhana 12y ago
Same model and I don't have this issue. This might be a driver or hardware issue. Phone is manufactured by LG, so it is possible that Google can't really fix it. One comment claims same problem happened in 4.2.2, 4.4.4 and 5.0 too, so it might be some changes in 5.0 just make it happen much more often (NuPlayer?)
jbuzbee 12y ago
My daughter and both have the Nexus 4 and I don't recall ever having this problem. Suppose its a carrier issue? We're on TMobile.
- ddlatham 12y ago
  My wife and I both have the Nexus 4 and are using TMobile. Her phone has this problem. Mine does not.

zumtar 12y ago

If you have time (and the inclination) then you could report this to the technical support department of the mobile telco you are using. You won't get instant gratification that you would by using a bugtracker but technical reports back to the vendor (in this case Google) do eventually get sent upstream. If enough people complain via Google's channels then the bug will be brought up at higher levels eventually. The other option is to tweet at senior Android guys and see if you get a response. Good luck.

arihant 12y ago
You know, that is a valid option. When iPhone 4's telephone broke because of the "grip of death" antenna issue, Steve Jobs himself came out, apologized, offered a free bumper case to mitigate the issue. Compare that to this. And the telco of Nexus is Google! Google just pointed to contact Google.
- zumtar 12y ago
  > And the telco of Nexus is Google! It isn't, Google doesn't run their own mobile network or mobile virtual network (yet). Contacting the technical support team of the company that provides you the SIM card that is inserted into the Nexus device will have an effect. I know it seems backwards because the issue has actually been introduced with Google's OTA update but those technical support calls get escalated and eventually they'll end up back at Google (via the team that deals with carrier interaction).
  - arihant 12y ago
    It won't work that way. Nexus 4 was not sold through a carrier, Google sold it unlocked through their website.
    - zumtar 12y ago
      Yes it will. I am fully aware that the handsets are bought contract-free from Google (I am a long time Nexus user and purchaser), I am not suggesting that the carrier will replace or repair the handset. The handset that attaches to a GSM network has to conform to many standards set out by the GSMA (GSM association) as well as many other local certification bodies and associations (one example is the handset must have the ability to call emergency services). If complaints are made to the technical department of the carrier being used, the calls will eventually be escalated to a vendor/manufacturer of Google's size. I've worked for various different cellular providers and I have personally seen such tickets.

piquadrat 12y ago

More than the fact that tickets like this get closed, I find the way that they are closed infuriating. You would think that dozens of comments, many of them with lots of details, would merit a more extensive answer than a single > contact customer support. How about "Thanks for all your comments. Unfortunately, this is the wrong forum to report problems like this. Please contact the Nexus customer support and let them know about the issues you are having."

pen2l 12y ago
The other reason closing tickets is not a good answer: if there's gonna be an answer or a solution, someone who had the problem in the past or just solved it now is going to post it there. Then people googling the problem and arriving at the ticket will not be met just with people who are complaining, but also possibly a working solution.
aroch 12y ago
Google is "Nexus customer support", they just don't particularly care about doing that job. Google drops support for their own developer phones faster than Samsung and HTC do. E: To address the initial downvoters: why don't you explain yourselves. How is Google not responsible for supporting nexus devices? They're sold directly by Google, they're produced for Google, and they're heavily marketed by Google. Google provides the software and hardware support directly after purchase and handles RMAs directly. Google depreciates Nexus device support in <18months. Nexus One, Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus were all dropped about a year after release, significant performance problems were never addressed. N7(2012) was dropped early last year from official maintenance and the absolute shit NAND quality was never addressed. Google has a history of not caring about proper support for their Nexus devices. HTC has released lollipop upgrades for devices that are >2 years old. Samsung has also released lollipop upgrades for devices >2 years old.
- morganvachon 12y ago
  Well...the phone itself is over two years old now, which means it's about 18 months out of support if you're equating it with certain other vendors' devices; Nexus phones actually fare better than some other devices. That said, the fact that Google decided to push 5.0 to it is in itself amazing to me, Nexus status or not. I have a Nexus 4 that runs 5.0, and when I've switched to it from my Windows phone I've noticed that I randomly have no call audio in the cellular dialer as well as the Hangouts dialer. I guessed it was something to do with the 5.0 release but I figured as little as I use the phone, it was nothing to worry about. But the more I think about it, the more I'm tempted to revert to 4.4 since this is my only backup phone, and I'd rather have it ready to go at the expense of playing with 5.0.

pakled_engineer 12y ago

I remember reading the google+ page of JBQ a while back where he openly lamented having to do customer support bullshit all day because Google is terribly organized without enough Android staff. Also the stock lollipop Nexus4 image doesn't fix this, you still have to reboot every so often to get voice back. It will only happen at the most crucial times too given Murphy's law, like phoning a cab in the pouring rain with only 5% battery left, and when I called a girl I met back and ended up calling 4 times looking like a complete inept fool or harassing weirdo when the voice first disappeared.

fishnchips 12y ago

Funny, I'd imagine a number of Googlers still have Nexus 4 corp phones. Just curious how that sort of thing is handled internally. You get a new phone issued?

Kenji 12y ago

I don't want to be a nitpick, but it's "its customers". Possessive its (for some reason, the words google, possessive and customers together like that make me feel uncomfortable). Not "Google treat it is customers".

classicsnoot 12y ago
I don't mean to nitpick, but you used the term 'nitpick' incorrectly.
- Kenji 12y ago
  How embarrassing. But thanks, I learned something.

sean_the_geek 12y ago

I have Nexus 4 and can confirm the issue. Never had it in the previous version. So much for the Lollipop update

poushkarr 12y ago

Had to downgrade because of the issue. Can't believe how Google behaves in this situation. My next phone is definitely not a Nexus.

tempVariable 12y ago

I'm on CM11 with 4.4.4 and I need to reboot daily to get around this issue. CM just posted an upgrade to CM12 nightly for Nexus 4 and I'm thinking of biting the bullet and taking on that upgrade

furyg3 12y ago

Of course there are multiple rationales for choosing a platform, but support is certainly one of them. A while ago someone made a nice graph of how good Apple/Google are at maintaining OS support for their devices, it's pretty informative (although I'd like to see a new one). http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-support/ http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-support/ In this case the Nexus 4 is still officially supported by 5.0... but not being able to call on a phone seems like unsupported to me.

EarthLaunch 12y ago
That's a great visualization, thanks. Here's an HN discussion of that chart from a year ago (it's a circus of everyone trying to make excuses): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6853222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6853222
- epmatsw 12y ago
  Love the highly upvoted comments about how Apple can never release a watch or a 6 inch iPhone due to the inherent limitations of iOS.
dice 12y ago
My wife has an N4 running 5.0.1 with no issues re calling, so if there is an issue for these users it's an isolated one and not a systemic problem with all N4s. Most of the Android phones on the page you linked are not Google phones. Whether or not they get updated is up to the manufacturers and carriers, not Google. You'll note that the Nexus phones have more update support in general. Whether providing major updates to a phone is a good thing is debatable. My wife hated getting the 5.0 update. She saw it as a major inconvience that changed how her phone worked for no good reason. She would prefer to have the phone work the same way for the entire time she owns it. PS: 'Sup, fury?
- GVIrish 12y ago
  > My wife has an N4 running 5.0.1 with no issues re calling, so if there is an issue for these users it's an isolated one and not a systemic problem with all N4s. That's a bit of a leap to declare that the issue is an isolated one because your wife is not having the problem. As it turns out, my wife had that exact problem with her Nexus 4 on 5.0.1. How widespread is the problem? Who knows. From my perspective it seems like the 5.0 release has been a bit more problematic than previous major Android upgrades.

gabemart 12y ago

In the link #440 reports that disabling "NuPlayer" fixed the issue. This setting is in Settings > Developer options under "Media". I've also found that NuPlayer plays unpredictable havoc with an audio playing app I wrote that is currently on Google Play. Some users on Lollipop report audio glitches, silence or weird bluetooth issues. Disabling NuPlayer fixes these issues. I wish there was a way for me, as a developer, to force use of the old AwesomePlayer system for my app in particular, but have no idea if this is possible technically. I certainly haven't found a way to do it. But what I find surprising is that NuPlayer is labelled "experimental" in Developer options but is enabled by default. Isn't that a bit weird?

e40 12y ago
Is NuPlayer a 5.0 only option? (My son's Nexus 5 isn't in front of me.) Using 4.4.4 here, with no plans to upgrade.
- gabemart 12y ago
  Yes, as far as I'm aware the option to default to NuPlayer system-wide is only present (and default) in 5.x
  - Kudos 12y ago
    It's not on by default and it's labeled "Experimental" on my Nexus 5 running stock 5.0.1.
    - gabemart 12y ago
      That's interesting. I didn't realize that only some 5.x devices came with it enabled by default. I can only speculate as to why some devices come with it turned on and some don't, but I've definitely supported some Nexus 5 users on 5.x who had it turned on by default - they didn't even have developer options enabled prior to contacting me.
fluidcruft 12y ago
Bizarrely, some apps seem to need NuPlayer as a workarounds (particularly for the new imgur gifv in Reddit if Fun, black screen problems in Words With Friends, etc). I found NuPlayer was disabled on my Nexus 4 after upgrade from KitKat and I had to turn it on. Not sure about what it defaults to after a factory wipe.

cwyers 12y ago

I wish Windows Phone was just like... 15% better in terms of app support. Existence as an Android user just seems more and more self-hating as time goes on, and it's clear that Google, the OEMs and the carriers are just not about to cooperate to make the user experience any better. (I know, I know, there's the iPhone, but I have a pathological hatred of iTunes for Windows, so that's not really an option.)

cordite 12y ago
There is also the problem where companies like Google refuse to acknowledge platforms apart from theirs. The iOS apps are usually faulty, and Google DMCAs any third party apps that talk to their services on the windows platform.
- fidotron 12y ago
  This is going to bite them. Android has deteriorated so much I'm working out how to move to Windows phone which really means leaving the Google ecosystem completely. And my career has been Android based for many years now.
  - cwyers 12y ago
    I have the 2012 Motorola X, and a Nokia Lumia 635 I picked up for $50 at Radio Shack a few weeks ago. I'm betting that the Lumia sees the Windows 10 preview before the Motorola X sees Lollipop. It's so bizarre.
- cwyers 12y ago
  I'm not sure there IS anyone like Google. Apple is all walled garden, but they don't offer all that many services that make sense outside of their platform anyway -- they don't offer anything like Maps or YouTube. (Well, I guess iTunes, but... Apple gonna Apple.) Amazon is outright weird about supporting non-Fire Android, but they've finally got Amazon Video available on other Android platforms, and stuff like Kindle readers are available for any platform imaginable. Amazon Video is also on the Xbox, Playstation, Wii and Wii U, Roku and all kinds of smart TV/I guess smart BluRay devices. With the weird exception of Xbox Video, Microsoft is pretty much falling all over themselves to be on every platform -- Xbox Music, Xbox Smartglass, Office, Outlook.com, OneNote... they're all on iOS and Android. Google has a Google PLay app for Roku, at least. They offer some stuff on iOS, but not as much as they do on their own platform. But they're not on Xbox. They're not on Playstation. I can at least reason out why they don't want to be on Windows Phone or such, but... Google isn't competing with the Xbox and Playstation, and they're kidding themselves if they think they are. Why not a Playstation app for movies?

bla2 12y ago

The difference between android and iOS and windows phone is that android has an open bug tracker, making issues like this a lot more visible. Maybe this issue doesn't affect many people, or google determined that it only happens for phones on a certain carrier and can't disclose that publicly. Sure, the bug could have been closed with a friendlier message, but an open bug tracker seems like a good thing to me

IE6 12y ago
Agreed. JIRA is managed this way as well and it does lead to a lot of anger around 12 year old issues that really should be implemented. However, at least we can see what is going on.
Spooky23 12y ago
That difference applies to individuals and SMBs. With both Apple and Microsoft, if you have an account team you have a channel to get things escalated, and if you are a strategic customer, you'll get rapid attention. Google doesn't really offer that, or if they do, the threshold to get that attention is very high.

rasz_pl 12y ago

What other response did you expect from Google employee? Google doesnt hire low level customer support people, google hires top of the line, few hours in front of white board interview coders, people with multiple phd's and industry veterans. I bet they dont even have dedicated support staff, just 200K a year programmers assigned to bugtracker having to divide their time between actual work and asking 'have you tried turning it off and on again'. Its BENEATH those people to interact with rabble. and here we have a result of this broken system.

UhUhUhUh 12y ago
And unlike hard- and software, such a broken system can last a very long time. There's an old French joke about "polytehcnician" (i.e graduate from Polytechnique, a top-level post graduate institution). What's the difference between a train and a polytechinician? When the train gets off the tracks it stops.

debacle 12y ago

I feel like Android 5 is a step back, UI-wise. One of those "change for the sake of change" things. I don't see how a triangle, square, and circle are more user friendly than a back button, a home button, and a tab button. Chrome is also crashing constantly on 5.03 and the new keyboard is very very bright at night. Not a telephony issue, but I feel like 5.03 was a step back and I've actually contemplated downgrading back to 4.* Is that an option for phone users, or does the carrier push the updates? Edit: It seems like every time I make a comment that might be slightly anti-Google these days, it receives downvotes. That's concerning.

skynetv2 12y ago
exactly. not to mention, the UI is full of elements that overlay other elements ... like the loading circle on top of emails, compose button on top of email (in gmail app), lots of blank space ... its just horrible (for me).
lukasm 12y ago
The chrome is very annoying. Constant crash and New Tab takes a few seconds. But the most annoying is tabs are treated like apps. When I'm on tube and read Effective Go I need to scroll through all apps and tabs to go back to it.
- misaelm 12y ago
  Tabs being treated like apps is definitely annoying. However, you can fix that by going to the chrome settings and turning off the "Merge tabs and apps" switch. Why "on" is the default setting is beyond me.
- malka 12y ago
  "settings > merge tab and application" IIRC
classicsnoot 12y ago
I like Lollipop, and i don't like what you are saying, and i completely share your concern. Many of the comments ITT that make a negative assessment of Google are greyed out. The feel is bad, but i maintain my loyalty to Google, as there is no better option. I also get the feeling that they are building a Mothership and i would like to be on that craft when it leaves Terra.

sapientiae 12y ago

Heh. I've just been hunting for clues to fix my "Nexus 6 randomly reboots" problem. Also quite common problem, and also radio silence from Google. Missed several phone calls due to phone having secretly rebooted. Nice synchronicity.

baggachipz 12y ago

I'm going to cross the streams a bit here and bring up a major concern going forward. Right now, "Project Ara" is Google's project to create a modular phone that allows hot-swappable components in a totally customizable pocket device. That is, you could have 3 cameras and no wifi in your device if that's how you choose to put it together. How in the hell do we expect the Android OS to actually make this anything but a bug-laden shit show? They're clearly having a hard enough time making Android work on their own narrow line of devices. The very idea of using this same OS for a completely open-ended device seems laughable, at best.

xasos 12y ago
They would definitely have to tweak and re-arrange android to work in a more modular system, where software can be built by the manufacturer/on the fly with pre-built components you can put in the software (depending on what module you have in the phone)
classicsnoot 12y ago
I was getting excited about the Spiral but this thread has decreased the wind pressure in my sails considerably. Theoretically speaking, is any big mobile device company capable of supporting a modular device that can compete with the top of the line devices?

tomphoolery 12y ago

Google doesn't even have "customer support"!

alsutton010203 12y ago

That bug tracker is for AOSP code issues, not issues related to any specific device, so contacting customer support is the best route for the problem no matter who sold you the device.

mutex023 12y ago

I have the same problem on 4.4.4, but in moto G. The solution that worked was to wipe the cache partition and reboot.

mutex023 12y ago

I had the same problem on android 4.4.4, but on moto G. The solution given on the Motorola customer support site was to wipe the cache partition. It worked.