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> You'll country after country where the most popular comics have little to no sexualized content. First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular

by xienze 12y ago

> You'll country after country where the most popular comics have little to no sexualized content. First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular comics are popular because of sexualized content (i.e., no MJ with big tits = no one is gonna read Spiderman; doubtful). Second: Japanese Manga. When you put it in perspective, a couple scantily-clad women, eh... could be a lot worse! > There's been a drastic change in them to in the last 20 years or so. They used to target boys, not men. You might want to dig up some of your old comics. The women were always drawn "sexy", it's just that the boundaries of good taste have shifted. You can get away with things in terms of sex and violence that you never could decades ago. And is it really puzzling why comics are targeting men more? It's because they're the only ones left reading comic books! Kids don't read them and don't care.

vidarh 12y ago
> First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular comics are popular because of sexualized content (i.e., no MJ with big tits = no one is gonna read Spiderman; doubtful). No, I am not. I am pointing out there is a correlation between sexualized content and sales numbers in the US today. In fact, I've pointed out elsewhere that perhaps this is one of the reasons the US comic audience is so small: The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. It's worth considering in that context that their sales numbers in Europe have plummeted, and that most of the Marvel titles are now relegated to English-language imports in comic stores, whereas in the 80's and into the 90's they were translated into far more languages and did well in many other countries. E.g. growing up in Norway, I could buy Spiderman, Hulk, Batman, X-Men and Superman at least in translated versions in any grocery store, with additional ones popping up for shorter runs now and again. These days you only see shorter runs that survive on the hype around the movies now and again. Meanwhile comics as a whole are still doing well in Europe. > Second: Japanese Manga. When you put it in perspective, a couple scantily-clad women, eh... could be a lot worse! There's a lot worse in Europe too. The point is not that there are no sex in European comics - there are European comics that are outright porn - but that the extremely narrow focus of the mainstream part of the US comic market is a US peculiarity. Like Manga is a Japanese peculiarity. But as someone else has pointed out: Japanese comics stores too has a much wider variety - Manga aimed at adults is not nearly as defining for the Japanese comic market as Marvel and DC superhero comics are for the US. From a European point of view, going to a US comic store is like finding a section of a comic store isolated by itself. You go through all of the superhero comics - with a few other things - and then you wonder "where are the other sections? Where's the comedy stuff? Where's the rest of the newpaper strip collections? Where are the westerns? Where are the rest of the serious graphic novels?" And yes: "where are the 'adult' - as in fully of nudity - comics?" > You might want to dig up some of your old comics. I have. It's exactly why I wrote what I wrote. > It's because they're the only ones left reading comic books! Kids don't read them and don't care. Maybe in the US.
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  My guess is that 18-35 year old single men who like superheroes outspend any other demographic by perhaps 10:1, presumably because they have the disposable income to do so.
  - vidarh 12y ago
    And this is a huge problem for Marvel and DC, as if they don't address the decline in popularity with children, the US comics market is set for continued decline. They can't continue to reap the benefits of that market segment if they don't ensure there's ongoing recruitment into it.
- xienze 12y ago
  > The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books: men who grew up reading comic books. Who are now adults. Kids don't read comic books and don't care to. It's been that way for quite a while. I'm willing to bet the comic book companies have done a little market research before going in this direction rather than intentionally alienating younger readers. > and then you wonder "where are the other sections? Where's the comedy stuff? Where's the rest of the newpaper strip collections? Where are the westerns? Where are the rest of the serious graphic novels? If those genres sold well, there'd be more of them. > Maybe in the US. Well, we're talking about comics in the US here aren't we?
  - pdpi 12y ago
    > They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books Well, funnily enough we're having this discussion on a website devoted to startups. So think of it from a business point of view. What would any of us here say if someone described the current state of affairs and strategy for their startup as "we started off as a successful company but we've been bleeding users and losing demographics, so we're going to cater exclusively to those demographics that still use our product, even if it further alienates everybody else"? Look at a good example of a company doing the exact opposite: Lego was in dire straits a while back, and managed to make a comeback by diversifying — getting into the video game market brought kids back, and made the bricks a viable business again. "Oh we're catering to our core audience" at some point becomes an absurd argument.
vertex-four 12y ago
> Second: Japanese Manga. When you put it in perspective, a couple scantily-clad women, eh... could be a lot worse! There's tons upon tons of manga that never so much as touches on sexual themes. It's a wide and diverse medium. This is like suggesting that because porn exists, all video is porn.
- xienze 12y ago
  Well clearly I was talking about the Manga that is sexual.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

by xienze 12y ago

vidarh 12y ago

> First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular comics are popular because of sexualized content (i.e., no MJ with big tits = no one is gonna read Spiderman; doubtful). No, I am not. I am pointing out there is a correlation between sexualized content and sales numbers in the US today. In fact, I've pointed out elsewhere that perhaps this is one of the reasons the US comic audience is so small: The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. It's worth considering in that context that their sales numbers in Europe have plummeted, and that most of the Marvel titles are now relegated to English-language imports in comic stores, whereas in the 80's and into the 90's they were translated into far more languages and did well in many other countries. E.g. growing up in Norway, I could buy Spiderman, Hulk, Batman, X-Men and Superman at least in translated versions in any grocery store, with additional ones popping up for shorter runs now and again. These days you only see shorter runs that survive on the hype around the movies now and again. Meanwhile comics as a whole are still doing well in Europe. > Second: Japanese Manga. When you put it in perspective, a couple scantily-clad women, eh... could be a lot worse! There's a lot worse in Europe too. The point is not that there are no sex in European comics - there are European comics that are outright porn - but that the extremely narrow focus of the mainstream part of the US comic market is a US peculiarity. Like Manga is a Japanese peculiarity. But as someone else has pointed out: Japanese comics stores too has a much wider variety - Manga aimed at adults is not nearly as defining for the Japanese comic market as Marvel and DC superhero comics are for the US. From a European point of view, going to a US comic store is like finding a section of a comic store isolated by itself. You go through all of the superhero comics - with a few other things - and then you wonder "where are the other sections? Where's the comedy stuff? Where's the rest of the newpaper strip collections? Where are the westerns? Where are the rest of the serious graphic novels?" And yes: "where are the 'adult' - as in fully of nudity - comics?" > You might want to dig up some of your old comics. I have. It's exactly why I wrote what I wrote. > It's because they're the only ones left reading comic books! Kids don't read them and don't care. Maybe in the US.

jiggy2011 12y ago
My guess is that 18-35 year old single men who like superheroes outspend any other demographic by perhaps 10:1, presumably because they have the disposable income to do so.
- vidarh 12y ago
  And this is a huge problem for Marvel and DC, as if they don't address the decline in popularity with children, the US comics market is set for continued decline. They can't continue to reap the benefits of that market segment if they don't ensure there's ongoing recruitment into it.
xienze 12y ago
> The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books: men who grew up reading comic books. Who are now adults. Kids don't read comic books and don't care to. It's been that way for quite a while. I'm willing to bet the comic book companies have done a little market research before going in this direction rather than intentionally alienating younger readers. > and then you wonder "where are the other sections? Where's the comedy stuff? Where's the rest of the newpaper strip collections? Where are the westerns? Where are the rest of the serious graphic novels? If those genres sold well, there'd be more of them. > Maybe in the US. Well, we're talking about comics in the US here aren't we?
- pdpi 12y ago
  > They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books Well, funnily enough we're having this discussion on a website devoted to startups. So think of it from a business point of view. What would any of us here say if someone described the current state of affairs and strategy for their startup as "we started off as a successful company but we've been bleeding users and losing demographics, so we're going to cater exclusively to those demographics that still use our product, even if it further alienates everybody else"? Look at a good example of a company doing the exact opposite: Lego was in dire straits a while back, and managed to make a comeback by diversifying — getting into the video game market brought kids back, and made the bricks a viable business again. "Oh we're catering to our core audience" at some point becomes an absurd argument.

vertex-four 12y ago

> Second: Japanese Manga. When you put it in perspective, a couple scantily-clad women, eh... could be a lot worse! There's tons upon tons of manga that never so much as touches on sexual themes. It's a wide and diverse medium. This is like suggesting that because porn exists, all video is porn.

xienze 12y ago
Well clearly I was talking about the Manga that is sexual.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]