5 ms·

What do you really expect? Comic books are overwhelmingly read by men. Men who generally -- and don't downvote me, you know it's true -- don't get much female

by xienze 12y ago

What do you really expect? Comic books are overwhelmingly read by men. Men who generally -- and don't downvote me, you know it's true -- don't get much female attention. Of course the authors are going to spice them up a bit for their intended demographic. Men have comic books, women have romance novels (and don't tell me the covers for those books aren't intended to sexualize men and titillate their audience). It's not a crisis, it is what it is. Sex sells, BOTH ways.

pdpi 12y ago
I wasn't arguing that sex doesn't sell both ways. Was just disabusing the OP of his notion that comics are not highly sexualised. Still, there's plenty of novels for all sorts of audiences. Both the titillating kind (swing both ways), and otherwise. It's just a shame that the superhero comic format, which does appeal to a wider audience than just male teenagers, caters almost exclusively to that one group.
- xienze 12y ago
  > which does appeal to a wider audience than just male teenagers I think you're gonna have to cite that. I would put money on 90+% of the audience being men.
vidarh 12y ago
It's not that simple. This is a cultural issue. Go outside the US and see what comics sell. The best selling comic in Norway for decades was Donald Duck. These days the most popular comics in Norway are Pondus - a comedy series about a pub landlord (previously bus driver) and his friend who sells music (after previously spending years on the dole) - and Nemi, a series about a 20-something female goth, written by a woman. While Donald Duck still sells fairly well. The best selling French-language comic is usually Spirou, a periodical that features mostly comics targeted at children. You'll find country after country where the most popular comics have little to no sexualized content. Now, I enjoy US superhero comics too, but as I noted elsewhere: There's been a drastic change in them to in the last 20 years or so. They used to target boys, not men. And they used to be a lot more innocent. Sure, they probably target their core audience, but the thing to keep in mind, and that it seems like Marvel at least may be waking up to: Maybe this focus on "men who don't get much female attention" is why the comic audience in the US is so tiny compared to the comic reading audiences in Europe or Japan for example?
- xienze 12y ago
  > You'll country after country where the most popular comics have little to no sexualized content. First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular comics are popular because of sexualized content (i.e., no MJ with big tits = no one is gonna read Spiderman; doubtful). Second: Japanese Manga. When you put it in perspective, a couple scantily-clad women, eh... could be a lot worse! > There's been a drastic change in them to in the last 20 years or so. They used to target boys, not men. You might want to dig up some of your old comics. The women were always drawn "sexy", it's just that the boundaries of good taste have shifted. You can get away with things in terms of sex and violence that you never could decades ago. And is it really puzzling why comics are targeting men more? It's because they're the only ones left reading comic books! Kids don't read them and don't care.
  - vidarh 12y ago
    > First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular comics are popular because of sexualized content (i.e., no MJ with big tits = no one is gonna read Spiderman; doubtful). No, I am not. I am pointing out there is a correlation between sexualized content and sales numbers in the US today. In fact, I've pointed out elsewhere that perhaps this is one of the reasons the US comic audience is so small: The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. It's worth considering in that context that their sales numbers in Europe have plummeted, and that most of the Marvel titles are now relegated to English-language imports in comic stores, whereas in the 80's and into the 90's they were translated into far more languages and did well in many other countries. E.g. growing up in Norway, I could buy Spiderman, Hulk, Batman, X-Men and Superman at least in translated versions in any grocery store, with additional ones popping up for shorter runs now and again. These days you only see shorter runs that survive on the hype around the movies now and again. Meanwhile comics as a whole are still doing well in Europe. > Second: Japanese Manga. When you put it in perspective, a couple scantily-clad women, eh... could be a lot worse! There's a lot worse in Europe too. The point is not that there are no sex in European comics - there are European comics that are outright porn - but that the extremely narrow focus of the mainstream part of the US comic market is a US peculiarity. Like Manga is a Japanese peculiarity. But as someone else has pointed out: Japanese comics stores too has a much wider variety - Manga aimed at adults is not nearly as defining for the Japanese comic market as Marvel and DC superhero comics are for the US. From a European point of view, going to a US comic store is like finding a section of a comic store isolated by itself. You go through all of the superhero comics - with a few other things - and then you wonder "where are the other sections? Where's the comedy stuff? Where's the rest of the newpaper strip collections? Where are the westerns? Where are the rest of the serious graphic novels?" And yes: "where are the 'adult' - as in fully of nudity - comics?" > You might want to dig up some of your old comics. I have. It's exactly why I wrote what I wrote. > It's because they're the only ones left reading comic books! Kids don't read them and don't care. Maybe in the US.
normloman 12y ago
I think that was the point of the article. Comic book authors don't consider that women might want to read their books, and so they unwittingly cut women out of their audience. Also, there's a difference between comics and romance novels. Comics are a medium, while romance novels are just one type of book. A book store will have many types of books including romance novels, but comic book stores may have just one type of comic, and it's usually for men.
- xienze 12y ago
  > Comic book authors don't consider that women might want to read their books, and so they unwittingly cut women out of their audience. I'm guessing Marvel, DC et al have done a lot of research over the years and found out yep, it's pretty much only males that read comic books. They've attempted female-targeted comic books over the years and they don't sell. Not really worth spinning your wheels on something that's not going to happen. > A book store will have many types of books including romance novels, but comic book stores may have just one type of comic, and it's usually for men. Men and women shop at book stores, so there's that. Comic book stores (are there more than a couple hundred left in the US anyway? Who cares) are really only frequented by men because WOMEN DON'T CARE ABOUT COMICS. No amount of hand-wringing over this issue is going to change it. Sometimes it really just is "men do this, women do that". It doesn't need to be over-analyzed.
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    If Danielle Steele wrote for a comic book, women would buy it. The only reason I own a copy of every Sandman is because I read Neverwhere first.
  - vidarh 12y ago
    > I'm guessing Marvel, DC et al have done a lot of research over the years and found out yep, it's pretty much only males that read comic books. When the vast majority of their output is targeting a mostly male demographic, and being sold almost exclusively in an environment that attracts mostly men, that may be so. But it is a situation of their own making by making their product offering so niche. > are really only frequented by men because WOMEN DON'T CARE ABOUT COMICS ... in the US. Unsurprisingly, given that they mostly sell products not targeting women... in the US. Basically, if they want to change that and widen their market - which is clearly possible - given that this is a US pecularity - they need to be willing to invest in it over time. Their alternative is to fade into irrelevance, given that they've managed to even lose a lot of the younger demographic too in the US.

by xienze 12y ago

pdpi 12y ago

I wasn't arguing that sex doesn't sell both ways. Was just disabusing the OP of his notion that comics are not highly sexualised. Still, there's plenty of novels for all sorts of audiences. Both the titillating kind (swing both ways), and otherwise. It's just a shame that the superhero comic format, which does appeal to a wider audience than just male teenagers, caters almost exclusively to that one group.

xienze 12y ago
> which does appeal to a wider audience than just male teenagers I think you're gonna have to cite that. I would put money on 90+% of the audience being men.

vidarh 12y ago

It's not that simple. This is a cultural issue. Go outside the US and see what comics sell. The best selling comic in Norway for decades was Donald Duck. These days the most popular comics in Norway are Pondus - a comedy series about a pub landlord (previously bus driver) and his friend who sells music (after previously spending years on the dole) - and Nemi, a series about a 20-something female goth, written by a woman. While Donald Duck still sells fairly well. The best selling French-language comic is usually Spirou, a periodical that features mostly comics targeted at children. You'll find country after country where the most popular comics have little to no sexualized content. Now, I enjoy US superhero comics too, but as I noted elsewhere: There's been a drastic change in them to in the last 20 years or so. They used to target boys, not men. And they used to be a lot more innocent. Sure, they probably target their core audience, but the thing to keep in mind, and that it seems like Marvel at least may be waking up to: Maybe this focus on "men who don't get much female attention" is why the comic audience in the US is so tiny compared to the comic reading audiences in Europe or Japan for example?

xienze 12y ago
> You'll country after country where the most popular comics have little to no sexualized content. First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular comics are popular because of sexualized content (i.e., no MJ with big tits = no one is gonna read Spiderman; doubtful). Second: Japanese Manga. When you put it in perspective, a couple scantily-clad women, eh... could be a lot worse! > There's been a drastic change in them to in the last 20 years or so. They used to target boys, not men. You might want to dig up some of your old comics. The women were always drawn "sexy", it's just that the boundaries of good taste have shifted. You can get away with things in terms of sex and violence that you never could decades ago. And is it really puzzling why comics are targeting men more? It's because they're the only ones left reading comic books! Kids don't read them and don't care.
- vidarh 12y ago
  > First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular comics are popular because of sexualized content (i.e., no MJ with big tits = no one is gonna read Spiderman; doubtful). No, I am not. I am pointing out there is a correlation between sexualized content and sales numbers in the US today. In fact, I've pointed out elsewhere that perhaps this is one of the reasons the US comic audience is so small: The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. It's worth considering in that context that their sales numbers in Europe have plummeted, and that most of the Marvel titles are now relegated to English-language imports in comic stores, whereas in the 80's and into the 90's they were translated into far more languages and did well in many other countries. E.g. growing up in Norway, I could buy Spiderman, Hulk, Batman, X-Men and Superman at least in translated versions in any grocery store, with additional ones popping up for shorter runs now and again. These days you only see shorter runs that survive on the hype around the movies now and again. Meanwhile comics as a whole are still doing well in Europe. > Second: Japanese Manga. When you put it in perspective, a couple scantily-clad women, eh... could be a lot worse! There's a lot worse in Europe too. The point is not that there are no sex in European comics - there are European comics that are outright porn - but that the extremely narrow focus of the mainstream part of the US comic market is a US peculiarity. Like Manga is a Japanese peculiarity. But as someone else has pointed out: Japanese comics stores too has a much wider variety - Manga aimed at adults is not nearly as defining for the Japanese comic market as Marvel and DC superhero comics are for the US. From a European point of view, going to a US comic store is like finding a section of a comic store isolated by itself. You go through all of the superhero comics - with a few other things - and then you wonder "where are the other sections? Where's the comedy stuff? Where's the rest of the newpaper strip collections? Where are the westerns? Where are the rest of the serious graphic novels?" And yes: "where are the 'adult' - as in fully of nudity - comics?" > You might want to dig up some of your old comics. I have. It's exactly why I wrote what I wrote. > It's because they're the only ones left reading comic books! Kids don't read them and don't care. Maybe in the US.

normloman 12y ago

I think that was the point of the article. Comic book authors don't consider that women might want to read their books, and so they unwittingly cut women out of their audience. Also, there's a difference between comics and romance novels. Comics are a medium, while romance novels are just one type of book. A book store will have many types of books including romance novels, but comic book stores may have just one type of comic, and it's usually for men.

xienze 12y ago
> Comic book authors don't consider that women might want to read their books, and so they unwittingly cut women out of their audience. I'm guessing Marvel, DC et al have done a lot of research over the years and found out yep, it's pretty much only males that read comic books. They've attempted female-targeted comic books over the years and they don't sell. Not really worth spinning your wheels on something that's not going to happen. > A book store will have many types of books including romance novels, but comic book stores may have just one type of comic, and it's usually for men. Men and women shop at book stores, so there's that. Comic book stores (are there more than a couple hundred left in the US anyway? Who cares) are really only frequented by men because WOMEN DON'T CARE ABOUT COMICS. No amount of hand-wringing over this issue is going to change it. Sometimes it really just is "men do this, women do that". It doesn't need to be over-analyzed.
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  If Danielle Steele wrote for a comic book, women would buy it. The only reason I own a copy of every Sandman is because I read Neverwhere first.
- vidarh 12y ago
  > I'm guessing Marvel, DC et al have done a lot of research over the years and found out yep, it's pretty much only males that read comic books. When the vast majority of their output is targeting a mostly male demographic, and being sold almost exclusively in an environment that attracts mostly men, that may be so. But it is a situation of their own making by making their product offering so niche. > are really only frequented by men because WOMEN DON'T CARE ABOUT COMICS ... in the US. Unsurprisingly, given that they mostly sell products not targeting women... in the US. Basically, if they want to change that and widen their market - which is clearly possible - given that this is a US pecularity - they need to be willing to invest in it over time. Their alternative is to fade into irrelevance, given that they've managed to even lose a lot of the younger demographic too in the US.