4 ms·

Are Software Developers Naturally Weird?

22 points by edw519 17y ago

compay 17y ago
I have always thought the fact that software has so many "weird" people is due to the fact that we're one of the most meritocratic fields out there. In software, if you can code well then people will generally accept you, whether you have a degree or not, and yes; even if you're strange. This is one of the things I love the most about our profession, and I hope it never changes.
ojbyrne 17y ago
Management theory was mostly invented in the 19th century on the basis that you have a bunch of smart, ambitious people (management) overseeing a bunch of dumb, physically more able people (labour). The weirdness is that suddenly what Marx would call "the factors of production" have to be smart. Not only that but how smart they are, rather than how strong they are, is the basis of their productivity. Invariably, they end up being smarter than the people overseeing them, and that's the source of the weirdness.
- wheels 17y ago
  There is some correlation between intelligence and skilled labor throughput, but it's definitely not a linear nor steadily increasing function. And while the managerial toss-up is an interesting historical note, it doesn't explain why people think programmers are weird, but don't have the same associations with, say, doctors.
yanilkr 17y ago
I have not seen anyone who is not weird in some perspective. Working environments are places where collective goal has to be far greater than the individual differences. If management or team members have to bring such discussions, usually the problem is not in weirdness of individuals. Team building and other socializing in non work settings can fix such problem. Non-technical managers tend to approach such things as some serious problems with people and try to fix them. Technical people can see that this manager does not get it and the environment soon turns into a bunch of passion less workers.
araneae 17y ago
There seems to be an inverse relationship between social skills and an interest in technology. It doesn't surprise me that the better a programmer you are, the more likely you are to have social difficulties. The extreme example of this are those on the autism spectrum; the high functioning ones tend to be very talented in math/tech and extremely "weird."
dlsspy 17y ago
I tell my kids that everyone is weird. The people who scare me are the ones who have no visible signs of it.
- ryanpetrich 17y ago
  That is very good advice.
bokonist 17y ago
Recently I tried to come up with a theory of developer quirkiness. Three possible explanations: theory 1) Weird people are attracted to software development because they can interact with machines instead of people. Theory 2) The traits that make someone a good developer and the traits that make someone quirky are correlated. People who are good at abstract problem solving tend to be less adapt at social interaction. Theory 3) Developers are actually normal. It's the business people who are weird. They are forced to create an unnatural facade in order to present themselves to external clients and partners. Eventually, that facade becomes them. Developers do not need to interact outside the company, and are judged based on what they get done. Therefore they are free to be their natural selves. Since I am a developer, of course I believe that Theory 3 is correct :-)
- cema 17y ago
  I concur, theory 3 is the winner.
- echaozh 17y ago
  So, by theory 1, animal trainers in the circus should be weird. I think this somewhat proves it. People daring to put their heads into the mouth of a lion or crocodile is not unweird in my opinion.
- cake 17y ago
  I have the same as number 2. I think that good programmers tend to be introverts with a bit of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder amongst others traits. Those are clearly not social facilitators but they really help in the job when you have to internalize a whole program to find a bug or add a feature without breaking everything.
- ovi256 17y ago
  These are are hypotheses, not theories, as you have not proved them.
- tetha 17y ago
  I'd be an example to support #2. I basically like to interact with few other things, as this gives me the ability to focus on each of them, so I can understand and react to them better. If the other person is a human or a program, solving an interesting problem is kind of secondary in this case. (I didn't need to proof I'm weird, I know, but I did :P) Probably that is the reason why I'm bad at smalltalk, either, (by the current filters, which are getting worked on) too little information for too much communication.
codexon 17y ago
This is easily explained by Zajonc's Social Facilitation Theory. http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/33455/1/0000859.pdf http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/33455/1/0000... Developers usually have less social interaction due to the nature of the activity. Because others usually have more human interaction instead of sitting in front of a computer all day, their dominant (or widely accepted) behaviors are encouraged, while deviant behavior is discouraged. This makes developers look weird by comparison.
a-priori 17y ago
The first thing I thought when I read about The 'Song Lyrics' Developer was: "wait a second, I've done that before..." Actually, I've done it many times, and usually when I'm both deep in the zone and listening to a song with good lyrics. So I guess I'm weird. Go figure. Usually though, in code I write for other people, I go back later and edit it out.
etherael 17y ago
Weird is a loaded term that translated in this particular instance means "deviates from the normal". Although it is not the be all and end all of personality measures, I do find some statistics about the MBTI personality scale very intriguing, especially pertinent to this particular audience and on this particular subject. The scale consists of sixteen personality types, here are some coverage figures for the most prevalent personality types: * 64% population coverage in the six most common groups. * The four groups that are referred to as "rationals" all put together total less than 10%. This total figure is outnumbered by any single instance of the top three personality groups. * 75% population coverage in the "sensate" category (has trouble seeing underlying patterns / rules to reality, experiences things purely through their senses without deep analysis) * Despite all this, and this is the most eye opening of all, check the relative distribution of types on this site http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=204240 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=204240 This goes a way to confirming that the developer mindset is indeed somewhat rare, but people using loaded language like "weird" tell more about themselves than about their sociological target group. I would posit that the relatively rare rationals really have far more of a reason to think that the rest of humanity is "weird" in the sense that they behave in ways that are not rational, rather than that they behave in ways that are not normal.
mahmud 17y ago
The weird conversations are acceptable because when you have had an isolated few days solving a difficult problem and you come out triumphant, you will expect everybody you know to take whatever bullshit you dish. My commit messages are rated R for language and violence. FWIW, I also tend to go bar-hopping and talking trash to thugs over pool tables when I feel triumphant. i.e. "You know who the fuck I am? You see this fast-scrolling black screen on my phone? that's tail -f /var/www/log/access .. don't fuck with me!"
- jacquesm 17y ago
  > "You know who the fuck I am? You see this fast-scrolling black screen on my phone? that's tail -f /var/www/log/access .. don't fuck with me!" Well, at least that conclusively answers the OPs question ;)
balding_n_tired 17y ago
How many jobs outside of software development have the folks had who say this? I've met plenty of weird people in three or four different lines of work.
nathanb 17y ago
I don't think so. I think smart, individualistic people are naturally "weird" and that more software developers tend to be smart and individualistic than the standard distribution would seem to imply.

22 points by edw519 17y ago

I have always thought the fact that software has so many "weird" people is due to the fact that we're one of the most meritocratic fields out there. In software, if you can code well then people will generally accept you, whether you have a degree or not, and yes; even if you're strange. This is one of the things I love the most about our profession, and I hope it never changes.

ojbyrne 17y ago

Management theory was mostly invented in the 19th century on the basis that you have a bunch of smart, ambitious people (management) overseeing a bunch of dumb, physically more able people (labour). The weirdness is that suddenly what Marx would call "the factors of production" have to be smart. Not only that but how smart they are, rather than how strong they are, is the basis of their productivity. Invariably, they end up being smarter than the people overseeing them, and that's the source of the weirdness.

wheels 17y ago
There is some correlation between intelligence and skilled labor throughput, but it's definitely not a linear nor steadily increasing function. And while the managerial toss-up is an interesting historical note, it doesn't explain why people think programmers are weird, but don't have the same associations with, say, doctors.

yanilkr 17y ago

I have not seen anyone who is not weird in some perspective. Working environments are places where collective goal has to be far greater than the individual differences. If management or team members have to bring such discussions, usually the problem is not in weirdness of individuals. Team building and other socializing in non work settings can fix such problem. Non-technical managers tend to approach such things as some serious problems with people and try to fix them. Technical people can see that this manager does not get it and the environment soon turns into a bunch of passion less workers.

araneae 17y ago

There seems to be an inverse relationship between social skills and an interest in technology. It doesn't surprise me that the better a programmer you are, the more likely you are to have social difficulties. The extreme example of this are those on the autism spectrum; the high functioning ones tend to be very talented in math/tech and extremely "weird."

dlsspy 17y ago

I tell my kids that everyone is weird. The people who scare me are the ones who have no visible signs of it.

ryanpetrich 17y ago
That is very good advice.

bokonist 17y ago

Recently I tried to come up with a theory of developer quirkiness. Three possible explanations: theory 1) Weird people are attracted to software development because they can interact with machines instead of people. Theory 2) The traits that make someone a good developer and the traits that make someone quirky are correlated. People who are good at abstract problem solving tend to be less adapt at social interaction. Theory 3) Developers are actually normal. It's the business people who are weird. They are forced to create an unnatural facade in order to present themselves to external clients and partners. Eventually, that facade becomes them. Developers do not need to interact outside the company, and are judged based on what they get done. Therefore they are free to be their natural selves. Since I am a developer, of course I believe that Theory 3 is correct :-)

cema 17y ago
I concur, theory 3 is the winner.
echaozh 17y ago
So, by theory 1, animal trainers in the circus should be weird. I think this somewhat proves it. People daring to put their heads into the mouth of a lion or crocodile is not unweird in my opinion.
cake 17y ago
I have the same as number 2. I think that good programmers tend to be introverts with a bit of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder amongst others traits. Those are clearly not social facilitators but they really help in the job when you have to internalize a whole program to find a bug or add a feature without breaking everything.
ovi256 17y ago
These are are hypotheses, not theories, as you have not proved them.
tetha 17y ago
I'd be an example to support #2. I basically like to interact with few other things, as this gives me the ability to focus on each of them, so I can understand and react to them better. If the other person is a human or a program, solving an interesting problem is kind of secondary in this case. (I didn't need to proof I'm weird, I know, but I did :P) Probably that is the reason why I'm bad at smalltalk, either, (by the current filters, which are getting worked on) too little information for too much communication.

codexon 17y ago

This is easily explained by Zajonc's Social Facilitation Theory. http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/33455/1/0000859.pdf http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/33455/1/0000... Developers usually have less social interaction due to the nature of the activity. Because others usually have more human interaction instead of sitting in front of a computer all day, their dominant (or widely accepted) behaviors are encouraged, while deviant behavior is discouraged. This makes developers look weird by comparison.

a-priori 17y ago

The first thing I thought when I read about The 'Song Lyrics' Developer was: "wait a second, I've done that before..." Actually, I've done it many times, and usually when I'm both deep in the zone and listening to a song with good lyrics. So I guess I'm weird. Go figure. Usually though, in code I write for other people, I go back later and edit it out.

etherael 17y ago

Weird is a loaded term that translated in this particular instance means "deviates from the normal". Although it is not the be all and end all of personality measures, I do find some statistics about the MBTI personality scale very intriguing, especially pertinent to this particular audience and on this particular subject. The scale consists of sixteen personality types, here are some coverage figures for the most prevalent personality types: * 64% population coverage in the six most common groups. * The four groups that are referred to as "rationals" all put together total less than 10%. This total figure is outnumbered by any single instance of the top three personality groups. * 75% population coverage in the "sensate" category (has trouble seeing underlying patterns / rules to reality, experiences things purely through their senses without deep analysis) * Despite all this, and this is the most eye opening of all, check the relative distribution of types on this site http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=204240 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=204240 This goes a way to confirming that the developer mindset is indeed somewhat rare, but people using loaded language like "weird" tell more about themselves than about their sociological target group. I would posit that the relatively rare rationals really have far more of a reason to think that the rest of humanity is "weird" in the sense that they behave in ways that are not rational, rather than that they behave in ways that are not normal.

mahmud 17y ago

The weird conversations are acceptable because when you have had an isolated few days solving a difficult problem and you come out triumphant, you will expect everybody you know to take whatever bullshit you dish. My commit messages are rated R for language and violence. FWIW, I also tend to go bar-hopping and talking trash to thugs over pool tables when I feel triumphant. i.e. "You know who the fuck I am? You see this fast-scrolling black screen on my phone? that's tail -f /var/www/log/access .. don't fuck with me!"

jacquesm 17y ago
> "You know who the fuck I am? You see this fast-scrolling black screen on my phone? that's tail -f /var/www/log/access .. don't fuck with me!" Well, at least that conclusively answers the OPs question ;)

balding_n_tired 17y ago

How many jobs outside of software development have the folks had who say this? I've met plenty of weird people in three or four different lines of work.

nathanb 17y ago

I don't think so. I think smart, individualistic people are naturally "weird" and that more software developers tend to be smart and individualistic than the standard distribution would seem to imply.