4 ms·

Number of deaths is a poor metric. Everyone dies. Obesity contributes significantly to the 70 man years spent by patients in dialysis every week in the US.

lobsterman 12y ago
Yes, and a poor diet can cause diseases that will make your life miserable, e.g. autoimmune.
- rollthehard6 12y ago
  Where is the evidence that diet alone can cause autoimmune disease? As far as I am aware, development of autoimmune disease is a complex process involving many factors such as genetics and the effect of infections on the immune system. Certainly there is anecdotal evidence of people improving their symptoms or possibly eliminating them through diet but this is not the case for every patient.
  - lobsterman 12y ago
    Yes, there are many factors, but our diet is the biggest (and greatly underestimated by the medical profession). Many people with autoimmune would benefit from eating paleo, not saying 100%. And yes, it's all anecdotal, but there is a great deal of science behind it. I recommend reading [1] for a better understanding. Again, anecdotal, but my wife has autoimmune that attacks the thyroid, causing her to have 180 bpm heart beat (24/7). Doctors recommended medicine that further attacks the thyroid, but she went with a paleo diet instead, after a recommendation from my bio PhD sister who also has autoimmune. Her symptoms stopped within a week or two, her values are now back to normal. Could be something else, but I doubt it. She had the same thing 6 years ago and it lasted for 6 months, while eating this medication that damaged her liver. Turns out gluten in particular is linked to many autoimmune diseases. Here are some shorter blog posts by the same author [2] on gluten, autoimmune and AIP. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be many large scale studies on diet and autoimmune, but personally, after understanding the underlying mechanisms better, and having personal as well as overwhelming online anecdotal evidence, I'm fairly convinced. I recommend keeping an open mind about this one and start reading. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune-Disease/dp/1936608391/ http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune-Dise... [2] http://www.thepaleomom.com/category/autoimmune-2/the-whys-of-the-aip http://www.thepaleomom.com/category/autoimmune-2/the-whys-of...
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
Shivetya 12y ago
Obesity is an epidemic we are accelerating. Then to top that, far too many do not understand the difference between obesity and morbid obesity. The latest fads of Fat Acceptance and Healthy At Every Size show the trend quite well. Then to make matters worse, in the US hospitals and doctors can be punished for trying to help obese, especially very obese patients. The ACA brought along patient satisfaction scores. So if you don't like what your being told you can score the hospital/doctor lower. While the economic impact might be measured in small percentages the tightness is costs makes this a big factor. You can guarantee this affects how the obese and very obese are treated, in many cases they will be coddled and never once will their weight be mentioned. Finally we have far too many people inactive in this country and many others because government benefits programs are sufficient to allow them this lifestyle. Simply put, if you keep paying and feeding people not to work just what do you expect them to do? Idleness is not a good state, its worse when we institutionalize it. Anecdotal but I am sure many have the same experience, there are two groups of co workers who are out the most, very obese people and smokers. Why should either be acceptable? If we can stamp out smoking we can stamp out obesity.
- pyre 12y ago
  So you're saying that nobody would be obese if it weren't for benefits programs? That is utter bunk. There are plenty of obese people that work for a living. More likely culprits: * The "cheapness" and accessibility of junky food. * The inaccessibility of heathy food in poor neighbourhoods (which may only have a corner store that primarily sells processed, packaged foods and no fresh veggies). * The creep of sugar/HFCS into everything. * The optimization techniques used by junk food companies to determine the right balance of taste so that people don't do things like eat in short bursts, but get sick of the flavour fast. [They basically run a ton of focus-groups on a bunch of small variations of the formula until they get one where people can -- for the most part -- just keep eating and eating it without getting sick of it.] If you liked potato chips, but got sick of the flavour after a single "serving" then you would eat fewer chips.
- king_jester 12y ago
  > The latest fads of Fat Acceptance and Healthy At Every Size show the trend quite well. Fat acceptance is not a fad as you put. It is about people being able to accept and love themselves as they are. Fat people are bombarded with messages that they are not acceptable and they should not be exist. Fatness is described as a thing to be exterminated, which implies that fat people should be exterminated. This is not hyperbole, you can see this message reflected in advertising, media portrayals, and what people say (your own post has elements of this). > Finally we have far too many people inactive in this country and many others because government benefits programs are sufficient to allow them this lifestyle. Simply put, if you keep paying and feeding people not to work just what do you expect them to do? Idleness is not a good state, its worse when we institutionalize it. Have you even ever lived on an assistance program like food stamps? The amount of money given is never enough to completely cover's one's needs, folks are constantly looking for and finding ways to raise money by working, whether its official employment or grey market. > Anecdotal but I am sure many have the same experience, there are two groups of co workers who are out the most, very obese people and smokers. Why should either be acceptable? Nobody is obligated to live their life if a way you find acceptable. Nobody is obligated to be healthy or to drop unhealthy habits like smoking. Health systems that seek to punish people will not produce good health outcomes, it will simply drive those people away from seeking out medical care when they need it. Accusatory and attacking beliefs about health are what cause doctors and medical professionals to blame health outcomes on that status even when it is unrelated.

lobsterman 12y ago

Yes, and a poor diet can cause diseases that will make your life miserable, e.g. autoimmune.

rollthehard6 12y ago
Where is the evidence that diet alone can cause autoimmune disease? As far as I am aware, development of autoimmune disease is a complex process involving many factors such as genetics and the effect of infections on the immune system. Certainly there is anecdotal evidence of people improving their symptoms or possibly eliminating them through diet but this is not the case for every patient.
- lobsterman 12y ago
  Yes, there are many factors, but our diet is the biggest (and greatly underestimated by the medical profession). Many people with autoimmune would benefit from eating paleo, not saying 100%. And yes, it's all anecdotal, but there is a great deal of science behind it. I recommend reading [1] for a better understanding. Again, anecdotal, but my wife has autoimmune that attacks the thyroid, causing her to have 180 bpm heart beat (24/7). Doctors recommended medicine that further attacks the thyroid, but she went with a paleo diet instead, after a recommendation from my bio PhD sister who also has autoimmune. Her symptoms stopped within a week or two, her values are now back to normal. Could be something else, but I doubt it. She had the same thing 6 years ago and it lasted for 6 months, while eating this medication that damaged her liver. Turns out gluten in particular is linked to many autoimmune diseases. Here are some shorter blog posts by the same author [2] on gluten, autoimmune and AIP. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be many large scale studies on diet and autoimmune, but personally, after understanding the underlying mechanisms better, and having personal as well as overwhelming online anecdotal evidence, I'm fairly convinced. I recommend keeping an open mind about this one and start reading. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune-Disease/dp/1936608391/ http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune-Dise... [2] http://www.thepaleomom.com/category/autoimmune-2/the-whys-of-the-aip http://www.thepaleomom.com/category/autoimmune-2/the-whys-of...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

Shivetya 12y ago

Obesity is an epidemic we are accelerating. Then to top that, far too many do not understand the difference between obesity and morbid obesity. The latest fads of Fat Acceptance and Healthy At Every Size show the trend quite well. Then to make matters worse, in the US hospitals and doctors can be punished for trying to help obese, especially very obese patients. The ACA brought along patient satisfaction scores. So if you don't like what your being told you can score the hospital/doctor lower. While the economic impact might be measured in small percentages the tightness is costs makes this a big factor. You can guarantee this affects how the obese and very obese are treated, in many cases they will be coddled and never once will their weight be mentioned. Finally we have far too many people inactive in this country and many others because government benefits programs are sufficient to allow them this lifestyle. Simply put, if you keep paying and feeding people not to work just what do you expect them to do? Idleness is not a good state, its worse when we institutionalize it. Anecdotal but I am sure many have the same experience, there are two groups of co workers who are out the most, very obese people and smokers. Why should either be acceptable? If we can stamp out smoking we can stamp out obesity.

pyre 12y ago
So you're saying that nobody would be obese if it weren't for benefits programs? That is utter bunk. There are plenty of obese people that work for a living. More likely culprits: * The "cheapness" and accessibility of junky food. * The inaccessibility of heathy food in poor neighbourhoods (which may only have a corner store that primarily sells processed, packaged foods and no fresh veggies). * The creep of sugar/HFCS into everything. * The optimization techniques used by junk food companies to determine the right balance of taste so that people don't do things like eat in short bursts, but get sick of the flavour fast. [They basically run a ton of focus-groups on a bunch of small variations of the formula until they get one where people can -- for the most part -- just keep eating and eating it without getting sick of it.] If you liked potato chips, but got sick of the flavour after a single "serving" then you would eat fewer chips.
king_jester 12y ago
> The latest fads of Fat Acceptance and Healthy At Every Size show the trend quite well. Fat acceptance is not a fad as you put. It is about people being able to accept and love themselves as they are. Fat people are bombarded with messages that they are not acceptable and they should not be exist. Fatness is described as a thing to be exterminated, which implies that fat people should be exterminated. This is not hyperbole, you can see this message reflected in advertising, media portrayals, and what people say (your own post has elements of this). > Finally we have far too many people inactive in this country and many others because government benefits programs are sufficient to allow them this lifestyle. Simply put, if you keep paying and feeding people not to work just what do you expect them to do? Idleness is not a good state, its worse when we institutionalize it. Have you even ever lived on an assistance program like food stamps? The amount of money given is never enough to completely cover's one's needs, folks are constantly looking for and finding ways to raise money by working, whether its official employment or grey market. > Anecdotal but I am sure many have the same experience, there are two groups of co workers who are out the most, very obese people and smokers. Why should either be acceptable? Nobody is obligated to live their life if a way you find acceptable. Nobody is obligated to be healthy or to drop unhealthy habits like smoking. Health systems that seek to punish people will not produce good health outcomes, it will simply drive those people away from seeking out medical care when they need it. Accusatory and attacking beliefs about health are what cause doctors and medical professionals to blame health outcomes on that status even when it is unrelated.