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The wars in the middle east are not likely to make us more money than the cost. This is. It's an investment, like roads. It grows the economy. This is more

The wars in the middle east are not likely to make us more money than the cost. This is. It's an investment, like roads. It grows the economy. This is more or less considered a fact in macroeconomics. There are two very comparable super-relevant historical precedents: public high school education (yes that was someone's idea too) and the GI Bill. Both of these social programs (as they would be called today) have made this country not only a better place but MONEY.

danielweber 12y ago
This is more or less considered a fact in macroeconomics Oh, good. What does economics say about who captures the benefit of education? What's the rate of return on successful graduation from community college? (Hint: check Schenk Matsuyama 2010.) What is the graduation rate from community college? (And isn't that number a lot lower than you expected?) Now, given the fraction of benefits that is privately captured, and the fact that some fraction of students are delaying earnings while pursuing a degree, what return do you expect to the government? Also, do you imagine there being any limit on magically pouring money into "education" and growing an economy? Why is it that no other nation on Earth spends as much money on education as the US does? [1] Why are they all leaving money on the table? In the particular case of post-secondary education, the US is almost 50% ahead of its next closest competitor in terms of spending per student. What is wrong with all those other countries? Have you not told them this is a macroeconomic fact? [1] The US is at the top, maybe tied with Switzerland, in pure dollars spent per student. http://www.oecd.org/education/skills-beyond-school/48630868.pdf http://www.oecd.org/education/skills-beyond-school/48630868....
- stolio 12y ago
  Those numbers are dollars per student, if we start sending a lot of new people to community colleges our rank on that list might drop since community college is much cheaper than univeristy where many costs go towards things not directly tied to education: dorms, meal plans, sports equipment, stadiums, etc.
  - danielweber 12y ago
    Isn't that bad? I just got told that spending money on education is magic: the more you do of it, the better your country.
    - stolio 12y ago
      If you're trying to make the argument of diminishing returns for spending on education, that's pretty non-controversial. I don't think chart B1.1 helps you make that case, I think per student numbers are probably a wash to that end unless several other factors are taken into account. Of the countries in that study, we're number 5 for primary school spending per student, number 4 for secondary school spending, and number 1 for tertiary spending (and number 3 for total spending if we include educational "services"? Not sure what that means.) That data isn't painting a clear picture of America overspending on education. We also attract a large number of international students and they bring some money with them, some of them bring a lot of it.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  > the US is almost 50% ahead of its next closest competitor in terms of spending per student Are we talking about increasing our annual spending per student? I though we were talking about increasing the number of students by funding the cheapest post-secondary education programs we have. Certainly this would reduce our annual spending per student.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  > Why is it that no other nation on Earth spends as much money on education as the US does? Because the United States insists on taxing and spending money in ridiculously indirect ways that qualify as "small government", but actually cost more, rather than doing what every other country does and just having the national government spend directly on the relevant programs, but which are somehow too "big government" for Americans. The average European "big government" is actually much slicker and more efficient because it doesn't build large bureaucracies designed to avoid the need for a small bureaucracy.

danielweber 12y ago

This is more or less considered a fact in macroeconomics Oh, good. What does economics say about who captures the benefit of education? What's the rate of return on successful graduation from community college? (Hint: check Schenk Matsuyama 2010.) What is the graduation rate from community college? (And isn't that number a lot lower than you expected?) Now, given the fraction of benefits that is privately captured, and the fact that some fraction of students are delaying earnings while pursuing a degree, what return do you expect to the government? Also, do you imagine there being any limit on magically pouring money into "education" and growing an economy? Why is it that no other nation on Earth spends as much money on education as the US does? [1] Why are they all leaving money on the table? In the particular case of post-secondary education, the US is almost 50% ahead of its next closest competitor in terms of spending per student. What is wrong with all those other countries? Have you not told them this is a macroeconomic fact? [1] The US is at the top, maybe tied with Switzerland, in pure dollars spent per student. http://www.oecd.org/education/skills-beyond-school/48630868.pdf http://www.oecd.org/education/skills-beyond-school/48630868....

stolio 12y ago
Those numbers are dollars per student, if we start sending a lot of new people to community colleges our rank on that list might drop since community college is much cheaper than univeristy where many costs go towards things not directly tied to education: dorms, meal plans, sports equipment, stadiums, etc.
- danielweber 12y ago
  Isn't that bad? I just got told that spending money on education is magic: the more you do of it, the better your country.
  - stolio 12y ago
    If you're trying to make the argument of diminishing returns for spending on education, that's pretty non-controversial. I don't think chart B1.1 helps you make that case, I think per student numbers are probably a wash to that end unless several other factors are taken into account. Of the countries in that study, we're number 5 for primary school spending per student, number 4 for secondary school spending, and number 1 for tertiary spending (and number 3 for total spending if we include educational "services"? Not sure what that means.) That data isn't painting a clear picture of America overspending on education. We also attract a large number of international students and they bring some money with them, some of them bring a lot of it.
seanflyon 12y ago
> the US is almost 50% ahead of its next closest competitor in terms of spending per student Are we talking about increasing our annual spending per student? I though we were talking about increasing the number of students by funding the cheapest post-secondary education programs we have. Certainly this would reduce our annual spending per student.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
eli_gottlieb 12y ago
> Why is it that no other nation on Earth spends as much money on education as the US does? Because the United States insists on taxing and spending money in ridiculously indirect ways that qualify as "small government", but actually cost more, rather than doing what every other country does and just having the national government spend directly on the relevant programs, but which are somehow too "big government" for Americans. The average European "big government" is actually much slicker and more efficient because it doesn't build large bureaucracies designed to avoid the need for a small bureaucracy.