7 ms·

I wonder what the age distribution is? (Not just gender and race...)

DodgyEggplant 12y ago
Yes. Age is a fundamental figure for any demographics. Gender, ethnic group, and age. The fact that age is totally ignored is a huge blind spot.
bkessler100 12y ago
Exactly. They ask for age in their application and not gender or race.
- swampthing 12y ago
  Not a YC partner, but I help review apps... when I look at age, it's not so that I can discriminate based on it, it's so that I can see how impressive a person's accomplishments are in light of how much time they've had to achieve them.
  - jiggy2011 12y ago
    The problem is that this can be very skewed, especially for younger people by their economic background.
    - swampthing 12y ago
      What do you recommend?
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
    - hammerdr 12y ago
      For example, I know of someone that changed careers into the tech industry in his mid-30s. He should not be disadvantaged because he entered into the industry later than peers. Additionally, I can think of countless examples of "slow starters" that didn't really get good at something until there was something that caught that person's interest. At best, this is a flawed metric with many nuances to consider. So many that you could probably make the same determination by removing age from the application.* * If you want to collect demographic data, you can just ask for it in the submission form but not show it in reviews.
      - swampthing 12y ago
        Interesting... I'd be curious to hear which successful startup founders fit this pattern?
        frostmatthew 12y ago
        I'm not a founder [but that doesn't mean I wouldn't potentially found a company someday] - I worked in hospitality management until my early 30s. If I were to apply to YC I wouldn't expect you to be interested in my previous career so I wouldn't include that. If I understand you right you're saying you'd look at what you see I've done [in the ~3 years I've been a developer] and be less impressed because it's coming from someone in their mid-30s instead of their early 20s. Sorry to break it to you, but factoring that into your decision is the very definition of [age] discrimination.
        swampthing 12y ago
        Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that I only look at technical accomplishments. I like to look at whatever accomplishments that person has, regardless of what field they're in. So if you've worked a lot in hospitality management, then great, let's hear about your accomplishments there.
        DodgyEggplant 12y ago
        >> I only look at technical accomplishments Without age discrimination >>accomplishments are in light of how much time they've had to achieve them Age discrimination by definition
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
- TheMakeA 12y ago
  Small correction: The W15 applications did ask for gender.
sama 12y ago
we've talked about this before. we fund founders of all ages above 18 (though i think the oldest founder in the current batch is 66). we haven't calculated it yet but the median age for this batch is probably in the late 20s, with most founders in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. the last time i looked, we'd funded many more founders in their 40s than in their teens. there are a lot of promising 16 and 17 year olds that apply that we can't fund, though i think it's probably a good thing for them that we can't. as we have also discussed before, the majority of the most valuable companies we have funded have been started by founders in their 20s (with exceptions like stripe on the lower side and zenefits on higher side).
- DodgyEggplant 12y ago
  In some fields, especially science, you probably need to be 10-15 years in to start something, so 30's and up. The question: what is the age stats if you do not calculate science oriented startups.
chroma 12y ago
If (as I think the case is) YC doesn't discriminate on age at all, one might still expect a lower acceptance rate for higher ages. Allow me to explain why. As much as we hate to admit it, our brains (like the rest of our organs) start to decline in our 20's.[1] We're not quite as quick as we used to be. We can't work as hard. We take a little longer to learn new things. In almost every discipline, crystallized knowledge more than offsets this loss of fluid intelligence. Eventually though, age catches up with us. Combine that with YC's very high bar (accepting the top 3% of applicants), and even a slight dulling due to aging would cause a discrepancy. 1. http://lesswrong.com/lw/4gi/age_fluid_intelligence_and_intelligent_posts/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/4gi/age_fluid_intelligence_and_intel...
- frostmatthew 12y ago
  > even a slight dulling due to aging would cause a discrepancy Only if you completely discount the value of experience.
  - chroma 12y ago
    Not at all. I addressed that: > In almost every discipline, crystallized knowledge more than offsets this loss of fluid intelligence. Eventually though, age catches up with us. At some point, gains from knowledge can't make up for decline in cognitive ability. For some disciplines, it usually happens sooner (mathematics). For others, it's typically later (biology). For startups, I bet it depends heavily on what the company is doing. But at some point, age makes one less likely to be in the top few percent. Also, while experience is valuable, the value of experience is probably sub-linear. When learning a new skill, most important knowledge is acquired early on. After that, returns diminish.
    - jleyank 12y ago
      Some of this discussion might have to be revised if the startup is active in a health or scientific field. For example, people entering the Chemistry field with a PhD tend to be 30+, particularly if they post-doc. I would imagine if fully-trained (i.e., post resident) MD's are required, you might see people approaching 35+. So, while they're on the wrong end of the power curve, they're what you have to deal with. Fortunately, for the startup incubators, there are few scientific endeavors that lead to a useful exit strategy. Unless, of course, you're trying to start a biotech or pharma startup. And at that point, you're 1-2 orders of magnitude more expensive as physical plant and even regulatory approval start to enter the picture. Medical endeavors are probably information based (deal with privacy and patient access issues, hence MD's) which is easier to handle. If they're medical devices, you'll face approval processes, I think, similar to pharma. Possibly faster in that there aren't so many steps in the clinical trial process - devices tend not to have a tox problem, for example.

Yes. Age is a fundamental figure for any demographics. Gender, ethnic group, and age. The fact that age is totally ignored is a huge blind spot.

bkessler100 12y ago

Exactly. They ask for age in their application and not gender or race.

swampthing 12y ago
Not a YC partner, but I help review apps... when I look at age, it's not so that I can discriminate based on it, it's so that I can see how impressive a person's accomplishments are in light of how much time they've had to achieve them.
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  The problem is that this can be very skewed, especially for younger people by their economic background.
  - swampthing 12y ago
    What do you recommend?
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - hammerdr 12y ago
    For example, I know of someone that changed careers into the tech industry in his mid-30s. He should not be disadvantaged because he entered into the industry later than peers. Additionally, I can think of countless examples of "slow starters" that didn't really get good at something until there was something that caught that person's interest. At best, this is a flawed metric with many nuances to consider. So many that you could probably make the same determination by removing age from the application.* * If you want to collect demographic data, you can just ask for it in the submission form but not show it in reviews.
    - swampthing 12y ago
      Interesting... I'd be curious to hear which successful startup founders fit this pattern?
      - frostmatthew 12y ago
        I'm not a founder [but that doesn't mean I wouldn't potentially found a company someday] - I worked in hospitality management until my early 30s. If I were to apply to YC I wouldn't expect you to be interested in my previous career so I wouldn't include that. If I understand you right you're saying you'd look at what you see I've done [in the ~3 years I've been a developer] and be less impressed because it's coming from someone in their mid-30s instead of their early 20s. Sorry to break it to you, but factoring that into your decision is the very definition of [age] discrimination.
        swampthing 12y ago
        Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that I only look at technical accomplishments. I like to look at whatever accomplishments that person has, regardless of what field they're in. So if you've worked a lot in hospitality management, then great, let's hear about your accomplishments there.
        DodgyEggplant 12y ago
        >> I only look at technical accomplishments Without age discrimination >>accomplishments are in light of how much time they've had to achieve them Age discrimination by definition
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
TheMakeA 12y ago
Small correction: The W15 applications did ask for gender.

sama 12y ago

we've talked about this before. we fund founders of all ages above 18 (though i think the oldest founder in the current batch is 66). we haven't calculated it yet but the median age for this batch is probably in the late 20s, with most founders in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. the last time i looked, we'd funded many more founders in their 40s than in their teens. there are a lot of promising 16 and 17 year olds that apply that we can't fund, though i think it's probably a good thing for them that we can't. as we have also discussed before, the majority of the most valuable companies we have funded have been started by founders in their 20s (with exceptions like stripe on the lower side and zenefits on higher side).

DodgyEggplant 12y ago
In some fields, especially science, you probably need to be 10-15 years in to start something, so 30's and up. The question: what is the age stats if you do not calculate science oriented startups.

chroma 12y ago

If (as I think the case is) YC doesn't discriminate on age at all, one might still expect a lower acceptance rate for higher ages. Allow me to explain why. As much as we hate to admit it, our brains (like the rest of our organs) start to decline in our 20's.[1] We're not quite as quick as we used to be. We can't work as hard. We take a little longer to learn new things. In almost every discipline, crystallized knowledge more than offsets this loss of fluid intelligence. Eventually though, age catches up with us. Combine that with YC's very high bar (accepting the top 3% of applicants), and even a slight dulling due to aging would cause a discrepancy. 1. http://lesswrong.com/lw/4gi/age_fluid_intelligence_and_intelligent_posts/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/4gi/age_fluid_intelligence_and_intel...

frostmatthew 12y ago
> even a slight dulling due to aging would cause a discrepancy Only if you completely discount the value of experience.
- chroma 12y ago
  Not at all. I addressed that: > In almost every discipline, crystallized knowledge more than offsets this loss of fluid intelligence. Eventually though, age catches up with us. At some point, gains from knowledge can't make up for decline in cognitive ability. For some disciplines, it usually happens sooner (mathematics). For others, it's typically later (biology). For startups, I bet it depends heavily on what the company is doing. But at some point, age makes one less likely to be in the top few percent. Also, while experience is valuable, the value of experience is probably sub-linear. When learning a new skill, most important knowledge is acquired early on. After that, returns diminish.
  - jleyank 12y ago
    Some of this discussion might have to be revised if the startup is active in a health or scientific field. For example, people entering the Chemistry field with a PhD tend to be 30+, particularly if they post-doc. I would imagine if fully-trained (i.e., post resident) MD's are required, you might see people approaching 35+. So, while they're on the wrong end of the power curve, they're what you have to deal with. Fortunately, for the startup incubators, there are few scientific endeavors that lead to a useful exit strategy. Unless, of course, you're trying to start a biotech or pharma startup. And at that point, you're 1-2 orders of magnitude more expensive as physical plant and even regulatory approval start to enter the picture. Medical endeavors are probably information based (deal with privacy and patient access issues, hence MD's) which is easier to handle. If they're medical devices, you'll face approval processes, I think, similar to pharma. Possibly faster in that there aren't so many steps in the clinical trial process - devices tend not to have a tox problem, for example.