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I'm glad that it worked for him, but my community college was a complete waste of time with the exception of two (just two!) courses and the internship program.

by romaniv 12y ago

I'm glad that it worked for him, but my community college was a complete waste of time with the exception of two (just two!) courses and the internship program. I think the true way forward is in replacing community colleges with certificates from online courses (with some in-person labs, probably). It's cheaper and would make for better quality of education.

aaron-lebo 12y ago
Colleges as a whole should be completely replaced with something like certificates. Bachelor degrees are way too expensive for what they provide. The vast majority of people would be much better off with focused, relevant learning and skills. I went to a CC as well, fantastically cost-effective, I had some real gems for teachers, but I can think of at least one who had no business teaching anything. If we make CC free, they become an additional paper prereq, and high school education becomes even less valuable because basic education gets pushed further back to the CC level. Stop, stop, stop. I know many people on this forum like me value learning, but spending more money fixes nothing.
- Retra 12y ago
  What you're saying is mostly true, but it may not be all that relevant. The vast majority of people would be better off if you just gave them everything for free, but the _society_ as a whole would not be. Bachelor degrees, for instance, aren't supposed to be designed to serve the student, but to serve the community. (I.e., that's why they teach the 'classics' in the western/greek tradition.) You are not supposed to be purchasing an education for yourself alone. It is supposed to make you a better person in terms of supporting your community, and your community is _supposed_ to support you for doing so. I think you are being too narrow-minded in supposing we'd all be better off by adapting a policy that essentially maximizes selfishness and division of skill. One cannot have the flexibility to make good plans by refusing to make any sacrifices.
- gnopgnip 12y ago
  There is a real societal value to liberal arts classes and other requirements beyond classes directly related to the job you are training for. Having a capacity to continue learning, skillful communication, and the ability to think for yourself are integral to your future success, but are often not covered by more technical classes.
jacalata 12y ago
I don't know if it would make for better quality of education in general. People attending community college tend to have less digital access and need more encouragement and support than your average college student. A number of studies on outcomes for classes taken online vs in-person at community colleges have been done, one of the biggest I know of being a study across the California community college system. They found that student dropout and failure rates were higher in online courses than regular in-person classes (after controlling for incoming background, etc) but that taking at least one online course made it more likely the student would graduate, probably because of enabling a course flow/meeting a requirement that was otherwise difficult to schedule. http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/report/R_514HJR.pdf http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/report/R_514HJR.pdf
bjwbell 12y ago
My experience was that math & physics were very good. Basically the first two years of a standard state uni. curriculum for a quarter or less of the price. The CS courses were useless, all of the material I'd already easily learned by programming. Taking a couple years of community college classes while HS age is a good investment. You can satisfy many of the general ed/lower division requirements & focus on your upper division major courses, when you transfer to a uni.

by romaniv 12y ago

aaron-lebo 12y ago

Colleges as a whole should be completely replaced with something like certificates. Bachelor degrees are way too expensive for what they provide. The vast majority of people would be much better off with focused, relevant learning and skills. I went to a CC as well, fantastically cost-effective, I had some real gems for teachers, but I can think of at least one who had no business teaching anything. If we make CC free, they become an additional paper prereq, and high school education becomes even less valuable because basic education gets pushed further back to the CC level. Stop, stop, stop. I know many people on this forum like me value learning, but spending more money fixes nothing.

Retra 12y ago
What you're saying is mostly true, but it may not be all that relevant. The vast majority of people would be better off if you just gave them everything for free, but the _society_ as a whole would not be. Bachelor degrees, for instance, aren't supposed to be designed to serve the student, but to serve the community. (I.e., that's why they teach the 'classics' in the western/greek tradition.) You are not supposed to be purchasing an education for yourself alone. It is supposed to make you a better person in terms of supporting your community, and your community is _supposed_ to support you for doing so. I think you are being too narrow-minded in supposing we'd all be better off by adapting a policy that essentially maximizes selfishness and division of skill. One cannot have the flexibility to make good plans by refusing to make any sacrifices.
gnopgnip 12y ago
There is a real societal value to liberal arts classes and other requirements beyond classes directly related to the job you are training for. Having a capacity to continue learning, skillful communication, and the ability to think for yourself are integral to your future success, but are often not covered by more technical classes.

jacalata 12y ago

I don't know if it would make for better quality of education in general. People attending community college tend to have less digital access and need more encouragement and support than your average college student. A number of studies on outcomes for classes taken online vs in-person at community colleges have been done, one of the biggest I know of being a study across the California community college system. They found that student dropout and failure rates were higher in online courses than regular in-person classes (after controlling for incoming background, etc) but that taking at least one online course made it more likely the student would graduate, probably because of enabling a course flow/meeting a requirement that was otherwise difficult to schedule. http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/report/R_514HJR.pdf http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/report/R_514HJR.pdf

bjwbell 12y ago

My experience was that math & physics were very good. Basically the first two years of a standard state uni. curriculum for a quarter or less of the price. The CS courses were useless, all of the material I'd already easily learned by programming. Taking a couple years of community college classes while HS age is a good investment. You can satisfy many of the general ed/lower division requirements & focus on your upper division major courses, when you transfer to a uni.